NOT a Good Day At The Range

[280SOLIDBASE]

Did not have a good day at the range. Took approximately 96 test loads to try out today for my Winchester Model 70 .264 Win Mag. I have 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with Nosler brass and CCI 250 Primers. After firing about 20 of them, the next set of 3 was 76.0 gr. of RL33. The first round fired and the bolt was ever so slightly more difficult to open. I chambered the next round of the lot and fired it. There was no problem with the bolt on this round. I ejected the casing and inspected the primer. Primer was pierced. I had one more of that lot to fire so I chambered it and zeroed in on the target. Squeezed the trigger; nothing. Came to realize that the rifle will now not cock upon opening and closing the bolt. The safety will not move from the fire position. I removed the bolt and was going to disassemble the bolt, but I know the safety is to be in the middle position of the three prior to diss-assembly. Something had to have happened to the firing pin or spring is all I can think of. The string prior to this was 75.0 gr. of RL33. One of those 3 did not fire, which I credited to a bad primer. I used the QL data to arrive at these loadings. Alliant has no data available for RL33 powder and the .264. Anyone have any thoughts on this problem I now have?

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

Upon further review after fiddling with the rifle just now a bit, I've come to realize that the bolt cocks upon opening, but then when I close the bolt, the cocking indicator at the rearmost of the bolt moves inward as the bolt handle is lowered.

HOWEVER, if I raise the bolt, then pull the trigger, I hear a "click" then as I lower the bolt handle, the rifle remains cocked and will fire upon pulling the trigger. Is it possible that the trigger would need adjusted? The 3 position safety functions now in all 3 positions, BUT when I get the rifle "cocked", and move the safety to the fire position the gun fires WITHOUT pulling the trigger!

I have never owned a Model 70 prior to this one, and have never had any issues such as this on any other bolt action rifles.

 

[LD375]

By the sounds of it, something is not right with the bolt, I highly doubt it that it's your trigger and or safety, hard to tell without any pics etc..try to google Winchester model 70 bolt problems, and see what happens?

Lou

 

[ColColt]

There's a lot of Winchester aficionados at the 24 hour forum that may be able to help.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... Collectors

 

[DrMike]

Upon further review after fiddling with the rifle just now a bit, I've come to realize that the bolt cocks upon opening, but then when I close the bolt, the cocking indicator at the rearmost of the bolt moves inward as the bolt handle is lowered.

HOWEVER, if I raise the bolt, then pull the trigger, I hear a "click" then as I lower the bolt handle, the rifle remains cocked and will fire upon pulling the trigger. Is it possible that the trigger would need adjusted? The 3 position safety functions now in all 3 positions, BUT when I get the rifle "cocked", and move the safety to the fire position the gun fires WITHOUT pulling the trigger!

I have never owned a Model 70 prior to this one, and have never had any issues such as this on any other bolt action rifles.

It sounds as if you need to adjust your trigger. It is possible, from what you describe, that it has some trash on the sear.

 

[Rem Jim]

I agree sounds like the trigger sear is not engaging and cocking the bolt . RJ

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

I am going to try adjusting the trigger. The pull is very light & I am thinking that since only firing the gun for the first time in early March & only about 120 rounds through it so far, the trigger seems much lighter than what I can recall it being when I first shot it. I am ordering a trigger pull gauge from Midway tonight & check what it actually is before I tinker with it. I'm hoping that 1 or more of the adjustment nuts came loose from the trigger adjustment assembly. I'll let ya know what I find out. Thank you all for the input!

 

[truck driver]

It really sounds like a sear engagement problem where the recoil vibrated something loose.

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

Ok, I just got my trigger pull gauge and checked the trigger pull. It measures 1 1/4 lbs. There is no way that it would have been set at that from the factory. I'm gonna guess a factory setting would have been in the 3-4 lb. range? I'm going to take it apart over the weekend. As I stated before, I HOPE that the trigger adjustment screw just vibrated loose from recoil. I'll let ya know when I find out.

 

[Guy Miner]

Good call! Take care of that rifle. It needs some help before being used again.

Question... You normally take nearly 100 "test loads" to the range for a day?

Guy

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

Guy...I take what I have loaded to that point. Realistic expectations are to actually shoot around 50-60. The day I had the issue I only made it through about 20-24.

 

[muleman]

If it's the old style trigger and not the MOA, my bet is that the lock nut(second one) came loose allowing the spring to loosen up. In all my M70s I've found that the lower limit is about 2.5lbs for a safe trigger. If you change out the spring you might be able to go lower. Ernie's carries lower poundage springs if you want to go that way.
Scott

 

[SJB358]

If it's the old style trigger and not the MOA, my bet is that the lock nut(second one) came loose allowing the spring to loosen up. In all my M70s I've found that the lower limit is about 2.5lbs for a safe trigger. If you change out the spring you might be able to go lower. Ernie's carries lower poundage springs if you want to go that way.
Scott

Yup, I'd bet money this is the issue. My 264 Win Mag did about the same thing. The 2nd locknut loosened up some and allow the trigger pull to get REALLY light..

 

[lanman]

I had a similar problem several years back, brought on by the same scenario. I pierced a primer one evening. The following afternoon I tried to shoot a coyote and had a misfire. I figured bad primer. then as dark approached, the remaining two rounds in my gun also failed to discharge on a fat doe. What I found was that the small piece of metal from the pierced primer ended up inside the firing pin mechanism and would not allow the pin to travel full stroke. I had to disassemble the bolt to find this. My guess is that same little piece of primer metal has found its way somewhere it does not belong...

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

Well, I took the barreled action off of the stock. This weapon apparently has the MOA trigger on it as opposed to the older style with the two "jam nuts". I can see inside one of the "ports" where the sear engages the trigger. There appears to be a possible burr on one surface or the other. It's tough for me to tell without taking the trigger assembly off of the rifle and then diss-assembling the trigger itself. I don't know if this should be attempted by myself or not? The "click" I described in my earlier post is the sear actually engaging the trigger assembly when I pull the trigger after opening the bolt.

I do know that when I removed the barreled action from the stock and saw the trigger adjustment screw and the trigger over travel adjustment screw; they were both covered with what appeared to be some sort of hot melt glue. I scraped away what I could with a razor blade but the inside of the allen head screws were filled with the stuff. I took a torch and heated the glue to soften it to pick out what I could to be able to get a wrench in the screws. This seems like a poor way on the factory's part to lock the screws into place. It apparently did not work anyway. I did get the trigger pull back to about 3 1/4 lbs. though. This trigger has me spooked now. Wondering if I should just replace the trigger assembly altogether?

 

[truck driver]

I would get a Timney and replace it if it were mine. At least you would know that you have a quality trigger.

 

[SJB358]

Well, I took the barreled action off of the stock. This weapon apparently has the MOA trigger on it as opposed to the older style with the two "jam nuts". I can see inside one of the "ports" where the sear engages the trigger. There appears to be a possible burr on one surface or the other. It's tough for me to tell without taking the trigger assembly off of the rifle and then diss-assembling the trigger itself. I don't know if this should be attempted by myself or not? The "click" I described in my earlier post is the sear actually engaging the trigger assembly when I pull the trigger after opening the bolt.

I do know that when I removed the barreled action from the stock and saw the trigger adjustment screw and the trigger over travel adjustment screw; they were both covered with what appeared to be some sort of hot melt glue. I scraped away what I could with a razor blade but the inside of the allen head screws were filled with the stuff. I took a torch and heated the glue to soften it to pick out what I could to be able to get a wrench in the screws. This seems like a poor way on the factory's part to lock the screws into place. It apparently did not work anyway. I did get the trigger pull back to about 3 1/4 lbs. though. This trigger has me spooked now. Wondering if I should just replace the trigger assembly altogether?

It's a good trigger. I would find out what is causing the short stroke of the firing pin. I doubt you'll find much to fault with the trigger, unless there is a burr in there. I would look at the firing pin hole and make sure there isn't any pieces of primer in there that would obstruct the firing pin.

I like the older Pre64 trigger more than the MOA but after respringing the trigger on my old 300WSM is was REALLY nice.. I am not sure any Timney could have made it better.

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

I took the bolt apart last night and everything there appeared to be ok. The firing pin is functioning ok; when the trigger allows it to do it's job. There is just the slightest hang-up between the trigger and the sear that is causing the issue. As I said earlier, short of taking the trigger assembly off of the action and then taking the trigger apart itself, I don't know what else could be done. I may attempt that myself AFTER I put the new Timney trigger in that I ordered last night OR I may just return the trigger assembly to Winchester for repair or replacement. I can see them saying without the entire rifle they cannot do anything. If that were to be the case; they can keep the trigger. Objective now is to get the rifle operating as it should in as short as time as possible.

 

[280SOLIDBASE]

***UPDATE*** I just installed the new Timney trigger assembly which I received this week. It went in VERY, VERY easily and now the rifle fires like a charm the way it is supposed to. At least at home in the cellar anyway...lol. The trigger pull is right at 3-3 1/4 lbs. Hopefully off to the range next week to continue load development. Thanks to all who posted their insights and helpful posts.

 

[SJB358]

Very nice. Can't wait to hear how you make out with it. A good trigger is just about the most important part for me to get decent groups and to really be able to fire the rifle from field positions well.