Okay you technical shooters.

[ShadeTree]

What likely makes this? Still experimenting with the 22-250 and making changes that are easily reversed just seeing how things are affected.

Shot this group on the left.....4th shot was out so I considered it an oddball and was expecting my 5th shot to go back in with the first 3. Nope, cut the bullet hole of the odd man out. Because it wasn't random it makes me think I wasn't paying attention to how level the crosshairs were and repeated myself on the 4th and 5th shot? All I had loaded so couldn't experiment farther.

3 shot group is down in the 3's, the 2 outside put it under 3/4". Unweighed brass and cheap $9 per 100 Speers so could be plenty of variables, but just curious, likely me on the 2 other shots, or some other variable?

 

[jimbires]

bedding can cause this .

 

[Whitesheep]

Do you neck turn?

 

[ShadeTree]

Do you neck turn?

No I don't. Guess until I eliminate all the outside variables I can expect some of that mixed in. In general I'm able to get down to 1/2" with my methods and guns capable of doing so, so I never moved beyond that. Most took a good bit of work to get there but that's part of the satisfaction. This was a flea market Mauser that didn't shoot anywhere close to this level when I got my hands on it so I'm already happy, but it's shown it's capable of better so perhaps I'll try going to the next level.

 

[Whitesheep]

You and I may be at the same place. I have two "trash" rifles that shoot sub MOA with custom loads that were 3+ with anything factory I tried. It is nice to turn a rifle a gun store offered me $50 for into a sub MOA rifle.

Random fliers frustrate me and sure it could be the nut behind the bolt, but when I read the the vast majority of high scoring Precision Rifle Shooters (PRS) both neck turn and anneal I decided to up my game. Most bug hole F-class and benchrest shooters neck turn too I understand.

Not annealing, as this saves brass and doesn't improve accuracy from what I understand. I don't shoot enough to invest what is really required to do this right. I'll just buy more Nosler brass. Neck Turning, however I am doing.

I don't have proof yet that fliers have been eliminated as with work and family commitments my range time is limited. However, I hope to prove the neck turning is worth the cost in time (lots of it) and money for good gear (K+M). Last time I was all on a 12" target at 500 yards in a 10 mph 7:00 wind. Not good enough to prove neck turning works for me, but a good start.

Keep em tight!

 

[ShadeTree]

Whitesheep, you think those kind of things can make a significant difference in group size at 100 yds? My thinking in the past is that it doesn't, but I guess if I don't check it how would I know for sure.

 

[ShadeTree]

Btw Jimbires, didn't mean to ignore you, just realized I never responded. This bore was previously rough enough that it prevented me from doing much experimenting that told me anything because it copper fouled too quickly. Gotten that issue much better, so if it shows a habit of this pattern I'll look into bedding as a possible cause. Thanks.

 

[jimbires]

no problem . another thing I thought of is parallax . not getting behind the scope the same way could cause this too .

I see what whitesheep is saying . to me fliers are scattered about on the target . I wouldn't call these two shots fliers , I'd call this a double group . the rifle shot 3 in a group , then something shifted and the rifle put 2 in the other group . next time out , it would be interesting to see if it put the first couple cold shots in this targets 3 shot group . if it does this would be a cold / hot group ,proper bedding should solve the problem .

 

[TackDriver284]

May I ask if those brass has been fired several times without annealing? I have eliminated fliers after annealing, and now I anneal after each firing. Have you felt differences in seating pressures?

Other thing I could think of, is it a pencil thin barrel? It tends to heat up faster than thicker barrels, causing those 4th and 5th flyers. Give it a minute or two between rounds to cool off and see if that will help. Just a thought

 

[Whitesheep]

Whitesheep, you think those kind of things can make a significant difference in group size at 100 yds? My thinking in the past is that it doesn't, but I guess if I don't check it how would I know for sure.

Yes I do think neck tension can make this difference at a 100 yards, but I could be wrong. The .280AI Nosler M48 I am shooting was just like your group. Two, maybe three nice and tight and then a "flyer." This was so consistent I could call it. After about 750 rounds this started to be less consistent and I could get more nice and tight, but then there would be that flyer.

Thought this was barrel heating. Now I am not so sure after measuring about 100 Nosler Box brass for neck thickness. My K+N tools take care of this. The jury is still out, but I think more is going on here than barrel heating.

BTW I have a .243 Weatherby MkV synthetic (cheapest MkV available at the time) with a pencil barrel. It will shoot sub MOA to empty the 6 shot magazine from un-neck turned Federal handloads. Go figure. One of my faves.

Keep 'em tighter

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Could be seating depth as well...