POP, QuickLoad Questions

[TRIC]

POP, 416 Rigby, Norma cases, Federal 215M primers, RL 22 102gr, 400 gr PT. Can you give me Quickload info? 25.6" barrell, CZ American Safari. With express sights, have been hitting all shots into 4" square at 100 yds. Recoil is not "too" excessive, and primer and brass are fine. Thanks in advance... :grin:

 

[yeayow]

Seems according to my version which i haven't upgraded on this computer yet, you might be over max rated pressure around 51000 psi which is pretty low but its supposed to be a big low pressure case. i think pop has the newer version which i haven't put on my laptop yet.

 

[FOTIS]

They have 47k listed as max per saami so.....


Cartridge : .416 Rigby
Bullet : .416, 400, Nosler PART 45200
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.750 inch or 95.25 mm
Barrel Length : 25.6 inch or 650.2 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 81.60 2022 3633 26751 7255 87.8 1.837
-18.0 85 83.64 2075 3823 28527 7506 89.2 1.789
-16.0 87 85.68 2127 4019 30428 7750 90.5 1.741
-14.0 89 87.72 2180 4220 32460 7987 91.7 1.695
-12.0 91 89.76 2233 4428 34642 8215 92.9 1.649
-10.0 93 91.80 2286 4640 36979 8435 94.0 1.605
-08.0 95 93.84 2339 4859 39486 8644 95.0 1.557
-06.0 97 95.88 2392 5083 42179 8841 95.9 1.510 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 100 97.92 2445 5311 45073 9027 96.7 1.464 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 102 99.96 2499 5545 48187 9199 97.5 1.420 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 104 102.00 2552 5784 51543 9357 98.1 1.378 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 106 104.04 2605 6028 55164 9500 98.7 1.337 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 106.08 2658 6276 59073 9627 99.1 1.297 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 108.12 2711 6529 63305 9738 99.5 1.259 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 110.16 2764 6786 67889 9831 99.8 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 112.20 2817 7047 72865 9905 99.9 1.186 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 102.00 2683 6391 63327 9122 100.0 1.270 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 102.00 2374 5006 41398 9026 91.3 1.517 ! Near Maximum !

 

[TRIC]

POP, thanks for the info. If I read your chart correctly, I'm in the "!DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!" area. However, the Nosler #5 manual shows RL 22 start load of 100gr with max load of 104gr. The Nosler #6 manual shows the same spread, but with the additional information that all stated loads are compressed. Inspection of cases showed no signs of over-pressure. Feeding of live rounds was normal, as was extraction of spent cases. With all my rifles and loading, I always work-up slowly with any new combination. As so many here often state, accuracy kills. And I always look for accuracy, safely. Am I truly in a DANGEROUS zone, or are things confused in my pee-brained mind????? :?:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

When SAAMI sets pressure limits, they are attempting to create a margin of safety in the LEAST safe gun a cartrige was ever chambered in. Two good examples of this are the 8MM mauser, and the .45 Colt. The 8MM was made with two bore diameters. About 98% of the 8mm Mausers in the US are the larger bore diameter, but SAAMI sets their pressure spec to provide safety even if you shoot the larger diameter bullets in the smaller diameter bore. Most loading data for the .45 Colt is very low pressure, But some books will have a listing for "Ruger only". Lets face it, a new Ruger Red Hawk can handle a lot more pressure then an old 1873, regardless of what it's cambered in.

You may be experiencing a different example of this. The CZ is a tough modern action, and Norma make a great piece of brass, so at an estimated 51k psi it doesn't supprise me you are note experiencing any excess pressure signs. Many Modern bolt action rifles are rated in the 60K psi range. I certainly can't speak for all of them.

Of course, in the end, it's your mug resting behind the bolt when pull the trigger.

 

[edh]

TRIC,

You are fine with your load. Quick Load, Load From a Disc, right on to the global climate models used to predict global warming/coming of the next ice age, are just that, models. The universal truth of all models is that they lie. They are a best guess of what is going to happen based on a mathematical formula and our best knowledge of how things work.

The data presented in reloading manuals is actual pressure tested data that is what really happened when that load was fired in a real chamber, using real cases, bullets, powder, and primer. Real data trumps a model every time.

I recently had POP run some data for me for my 338 Federal. Two of the powders came back with data that was very close, but still conservative to the loading manual data. For two other powders QL predicted pressures of 70,000+ psi for published loads that show 57.5-60K psi in the manuals, both below the 62K SAMMI average pressure for the 338 Federal.

QL and their ilk are great tools, but they are not the 'Final Word'. They are very useful for getting starting loads and for developing loads for cartridges that have no loading data available.

Ed

 

[TRIC]

Antelope_Sniper, edh, thanks for the info. What you and the others have stated is basically what I had come to conclude. Reassurance is always nice though. As for the toughness of the CZ actions, the Rigby isn't the only one I own. I really love their precision in matching wood to metal, and have always been a mauser fan. And POP, again thanks....

 

[FOTIS]

Ok I will say this "unofficially"

The 416 rigby will almost equal 416 bee performance in a good (modern) rifle and brass.

 

[TRIC]

Knowing your fondness for the bee, unofficial is close enough. But I have never been one to follow the crowd. Hell, took me over 40 years of hunting before I owned my first 30-06......