QL Request - looking to verify results from trip to range

[LifeAndLiberty]

Temperature around 28 degrees F

First request:
308 Winchester, 20" barrel. 1:10 twist
Reloder 17. 180 grain Nosler partitions.
2.855" OAL
With 47.0 grains of R17, averaged 2600fps over 4 shots. This was my lay accurate load. I'm wondering what QL thinks of the pressures here, and how this load would fare in FPS/pressure at 42 degrees.

Second request:
28 Nosler, 24" barrel. 1:9.5 twist
Reloder 33. 175 grain Nosler partitions.
3.400" OAL
With 86.6 grains of R33, averaged 3220.25fps over 4 shots. Three of the four shots were touching, very happy with this load. My concern is this seems to be pretty fast for this amount of powder and 2" shorter barrel than the book data uses. How does this load look at 42 degrees, pressure wise and speed wise?

Using this info I plan to order custom turrets from Leupold for my VX6. Im just wondering if I should compensate much for temperature, as today was colder than I think I it will be when I typically hunt.

Thanks.

 

[Dwh7271]

28 degrees

Cartridge          : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Nosler PART SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 48.111 grain H2O = 3.124 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.855 inch = 72.52 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17 ?, Temperature:  28 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.296% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-13.0   88    40.91   2251    2026   35381   8854     95.4    1.306
-11.7   89    41.52   2286    2089   36905   9000     96.0    1.282
-10.4   91    42.13   2322    2154   38508   9139     96.6    1.256
-09.1   92    42.74   2357    2220   40178   9272     97.2    1.231
-07.8   93    43.34   2392    2286   41929   9398     97.7    1.207
-06.5   94    43.95   2427    2354   43762   9517     98.2    1.183
-05.2   96    44.56   2462    2423   45681   9628     98.6    1.159
-03.9   97    45.17   2497    2492   47694   9731     98.9    1.136
-02.6   98    45.78   2532    2562   49806   9826     99.2    1.114
-01.3  100    46.39   2567    2633   52020   9913     99.5    1.092
+00.0  101    47.00   2601    2705   54344   9990     99.7    1.070  ! Near Maximum !
+01.3  102    47.61   2636    2777   56788  10059     99.8    1.050  ! Near Maximum !
+02.6  104    48.22   2671    2851   59355  10119     99.9    1.029  ! Near Maximum !
+03.9  105    48.83   2705    2924   62055  10169    100.0    1.009  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.2  106    49.44   2739    2999   64896  10210    100.0    0.989  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.5  108    50.05   2773    3074   67888  10249    100.0    0.970  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    101    47.00   2668    2846   60031   9768    100.0    1.027  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    101    47.00   2520    2539   49052  10041     97.9    1.120

42 degrees

Cartridge          : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Nosler PART SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 48.111 grain H2O = 3.124 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.855 inch = 72.52 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17 ?, Temperature: 42 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.296% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-13.0   88    40.91   2273    2066   36316   8900     96.3    1.292
-11.7   89    41.52   2308    2130   37890   9038     96.9    1.266
-10.4   91    42.13   2343    2195   39538   9169     97.4    1.241
-09.1   92    42.74   2378    2261   41262   9293     97.9    1.217
-07.8   93    43.34   2413    2328   43066   9411     98.3    1.192
-06.5   94    43.95   2448    2396   44956   9520     98.7    1.168
-05.2   96    44.56   2483    2464   46937   9622     99.1    1.145
-03.9   97    45.17   2518    2534   49011   9715     99.4    1.123
-02.6   98    45.78   2552    2604   51191   9800     99.6    1.101
-01.3  100    46.39   2587    2675   53473   9876     99.8    1.079  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  101    47.00   2621    2746   55875   9943     99.9    1.058  ! Near Maximum !
+01.3  102    47.61   2656    2819   58393  10000    100.0    1.037  ! Near Maximum !
+02.6  104    48.22   2690    2891   61043  10049    100.0    1.017  ! Near Maximum !
+03.9  105    48.83   2724    2965   63828  10092    100.0    0.997  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.2  106    49.44   2757    3039   66762  10133    100.0    0.978  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.5  108    50.05   2791    3113   69849  10173    100.0    0.959  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    101    47.00   2685    2882   61755   9698    100.0    1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    101    47.00   2543    2585   50402  10047     98.5    1.107

 

[Dwh7271]

deleted due to new post with updated data

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Strange quickload says these are all dangerous loads they are will within Noslers published load data.

 

[Dwh7271]

I changed the weighting factor for overbore. For some reason the default is .5 for the 28. QuickLoad glitch I guess. I used the settting used for the Weatherby's.
It still comes out warm though.

28

Cartridge          : .28 Nosler
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 87.238 grain H2O = 5.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-33 ?, Temperature: 28 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.703% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.0   92    80.51   2966    3418   50203  17340     97.8    1.344
-06.3   93    81.12   2992    3478   51473  17470     98.0    1.327
-05.6   94    81.73   3017    3538   52776  17596     98.3    1.311
-04.9   94    82.34   3043    3598   54113  17717     98.5    1.295
-04.2   95    82.94   3069    3659   55485  17835     98.8    1.280  ! Near Maximum !
-03.5   96    83.55   3094    3721   56892  17947     99.0    1.264  ! Near Maximum !
-02.8   96    84.16   3120    3783   58336  18054     99.1    1.249  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1   97    84.77   3146    3846   59819  18157     99.3    1.234  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4   98    85.38   3172    3909   61340  18255     99.5    1.219  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   99    85.99   3197    3972   62903  18348     99.6    1.204  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    86.60   3223    4036   64507  18436     99.7    1.190  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7  100    87.21   3249    4101   66154  18518     99.8    1.175  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4  101    87.82   3274    4166   67846  18595     99.9    1.161  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1  101    88.43   3300    4231   69585  18667     99.9    1.147  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.8  102    89.04   3325    4297   71371  18733    100.0    1.133  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.5  103    89.65   3351    4363   73206  18793    100.0    1.120  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    86.60   3313    4266   72068  18090    100.0    1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    86.60   3114    3768   57077  18466     97.9    1.255  ! Near Maximum !

42

Cartridge          : .28 Nosler
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 87.238 grain H2O = 5.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-33 ?, Temperature: 42 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.703% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.0   92    80.51   2995    3486   51862  17374     98.4    1.324
-06.3   93    81.12   3021    3545   53172  17494     98.7    1.308
-05.6   94    81.73   3046    3606   54516  17611     98.9    1.292
-04.9   94    82.34   3072    3666   55894  17722     99.1    1.277  ! Near Maximum !
-04.2   95    82.94   3097    3728   57308  17829     99.2    1.261  ! Near Maximum !
-03.5   96    83.55   3123    3789   58758  17930     99.4    1.246  ! Near Maximum !
-02.8   96    84.16   3148    3851   60247  18028     99.5    1.231  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1   97    84.77   3174    3914   61774  18120     99.7    1.216  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4   98    85.38   3199    3977   63342  18207     99.8    1.202  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   99    85.99   3225    4041   64952  18288     99.8    1.187  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   99    86.60   3250    4104   66604  18364     99.9    1.173  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7  100    87.21   3275    4169   68301  18436    100.0    1.159  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4  101    87.82   3301    4234   70044  18501    100.0    1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1  101    88.43   3326    4299   71834  18561    100.0    1.132  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.8  102    89.04   3351    4364   73673  18617    100.0    1.118  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.5  103    89.65   3376    4430   75563  18671    100.0    1.105  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    86.60   3336    4326   74295  17980    100.0    1.119  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    86.60   3145    3842   59027  18494     98.5    1.237  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Dwh7271]

Just an additional note.
The speed you are getting is above the highest speed the manual shows with that powder and as you noted earlier, the manual is a 26" barrel. Speed correlates to pressure regardless what any manual shows as I'm sure you already know.
The manual shows 3211 with 88 gr of 33. You're getting 3220 with 86.6 and 2" less barrel with a slow burner.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

I'm seating the bullet out further but it's still almost .03" to the lands so I'm kind of surprised by the pressure warnings. I'm kind of curious what QL says about the factory data. I can pull one of my bullets from a round I didn't shoot and re weigh the charge but I am fairly certain the scale was calibrated correctly....

 

[Dwh7271]

Oh, I wasn't criticising you or your loads at all.
Just running what you saw.
I apologize if my post sounded short.

My only observation was the speeds you were getting.
I don't doubt the load or anything else. It may be that your RL33 is slightly hotter than what QL uses as a default. I did have to massage the burn rate to hit your speed.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

No I didn't think you were being short. I just tend to type like the conversation I have with myself in my head. It's a problem. But at least the three of us up in my head tend to get along....

I think this may warrant a call to Alliant. Boy was that load accurate for me. I was surprised by the speeds I was getting today, about 100fps faster than what I was getting with factory seating depth. But, my 308 was shooting slower today than usual with the same powder charge. I'm going to have to measure the charge weight and eliminate that as a source of deviation.

 

[TackDriver284]

Got to love the cracking when seating the bullet with Reloader 17 in the .308. How is the crush? I hear people shooting the 208 Hornady bullets with RL 17 as well. Have you tried them?

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Got to love the cracking when seating the bullet with Reloader 17 in the .308. How is the crush? I hear people shooting the 208 Hornady bullets with RL 17 as well. Have you tried them?

I have not tried the hornady bullets but I did a whole series of experiments with 200 grain partitions probably about a year ago. I have a post on here that went about four pages deep with my results and some back and forth discussions. I think I was able to push them up to 2425fps range. I try not to push it too much because I have only been reloading for a few years so I might have been able to get more out of them. Ultimately I was able to reach near 2700fps with 180 grain partitions and decided that was the better round of the two. I am a hunter first and foremost, but I'm an engineer by trade, so I'm not content to pick up a box of Winchester white box ammo and go hunting. The crush isn't too bad at 47 grains with the 180 partitions but any more than that you can really hear and feel it.

 

[SJB358]

No I didn't think you were being short. I just tend to type like the conversation I have with myself in my head. It's a problem. But at least the three of us up in my head tend to get along....

I think this may warrant a call to Alliant. Boy was that load accurate for me. I was surprised by the speeds I was getting today, about 100fps faster than what I was getting with factory seating depth. But, my 308 was shooting slower today than usual with the same powder charge. I'm going to have to measure the charge weight and eliminate that as a source of deviation.

Just my opinion on this. Depending on your chronograph your speeds aren't too much higher than what Nosler is showing. My main concern would be how many times you can reload the case with the charge. Depending on your throat, barrel, burn rate of your LOT of powder you could be perfectly fine. If it accurate and you get useful life from your cases I'd smile and buy 8lbs of the same lot if you can.

3200 with a 175 Partition with that sort of accuracy leaves a lot of things in the dust for big game.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Luckily I don't intend to be shooting this more than I need to to be comfortable. This is my big game rifle. But yeah for 3200fps at 175 grains... that'll give a lot of critters a Nosler nap. Just gotta do my part.

 

[SJB358]

Luckily I don't intend to be shooting this more than I need to to be comfortable. This is my big game rifle. But yeah for 3200fps at 175 grains... that'll give a lot of critters a Nosler nap. Just gotta do my part.

For darned sure. Really like a fast 175. It did me really well this year.

I'd actually do cartwheels if Nosler made a regular 175 AccuBond like their 160... it just might be about all I'd want for hunting.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Luckily I don't intend to be shooting this more than I need to to be comfortable. This is my big game rifle. But yeah for 3200fps at 175 grains... that'll give a lot of critters a Nosler nap. Just gotta do my part.

For darned sure. Really like a fast 175. It did me really well this year.

I'd actually do cartwheels if Nosler made a regular 175 AccuBond like their 160... it just might be about all I'd want for hunting.

Agreed. For now the Partition will have to do.

 

[SJB358]

Luckily I don't intend to be shooting this more than I need to to be comfortable. This is my big game rifle. But yeah for 3200fps at 175 grains... that'll give a lot of critters a Nosler nap. Just gotta do my part.

For darned sure. Really like a fast 175. It did me really well this year.

I'd actually do cartwheels if Nosler made a regular 175 AccuBond like their 160... it just might be about all I'd want for hunting.

Agreed. For now the Partition will have to do.

Yup, and I am okay with that. It does work excellent.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Called Alliant. Went over everything with them, they feel I should have no issues with pressure due to the additional case capacity from seating the bullet longer and staying almost a grain and a half under Nosler's max loading figure. Waiting on a return call from Nosler to see if they also agree with that.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Well, spoke to someone at Nosler. He's a little more concerned and disagrees with Alliant's assessment. He believes I have more pressure due to the bullet being closer to the lands, not less, and recommended I not go much father and quite possibly back off the powder charge a bit but certainly don't go any higher. I'll have to take a better look at the brass, grab a micrometer and measure case head expansion. I wish I took a picture before I decapped the primers.

 

[SJB358]

Different rifles, barrels, throating, etc makes it hard to say. If the accuracy is there and you can reload the cases multiple times I'd be okay with it.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Would it be possible to get Quickload results for a 3.400" COAL for my 28 Nosler? My chamber gives me .029" to the lands with that OAL and with 86.6 grains of Reloder 33 I was averaging 3220fps in 28 degree weather. I went to reprime this brass and the primers went in too easy for my comfort level. I want to see how backing down on the powder charge from 86.6grains at that OAL will effect velocity. The results given, I just noticed, used 3.340" OAL which is SAAMI spec. Again, 24" barrel 1:9.5" twist. Thanks in advance.