QL request

[truck driver]

CFE223 in the 35 Whelen 200gr AB, 225 AB22" barrel standard case cap.
With all these new powders just curious if this will work.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler AccuBond 50712
Useable Case Capaci: 57.585 grain H2O = 3.739 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 79 46.96 2105 2213 29076 6353 88.2 1.449
-18.0 81 48.13 2158 2327 31049 6563 89.5 1.409
-16.0 83 49.31 2212 2443 33161 6768 90.8 1.370
-14.0 85 50.48 2265 2564 35428 6965 92.0 1.332
-12.0 87 51.66 2319 2687 37860 7155 93.1 1.293
-10.0 89 52.83 2373 2814 40471 7337 94.1 1.254
-08.0 91 54.00 2427 2943 43280 7510 95.1 1.216
-06.0 93 55.18 2481 3076 46301 7672 95.9 1.180
-04.0 95 56.35 2536 3212 49558 7824 96.7 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 57.53 2590 3351 53072 7964 97.5 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 58.70 2644 3493 56869 8092 98.1 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 59.87 2698 3638 60979 8207 98.6 1.046 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 61.05 2752 3785 65435 8308 99.1 1.015 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 62.22 2807 3935 70278 8394 99.4 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 63.40 2861 4088 75548 8465 99.7 0.957 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 64.57 2914 4243 81297 8520 99.9 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 58.70 2770 3834 69019 7885 100.0 1.000 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 58.70 2473 3054 46269 7846 91.7 1.179

 

[SJB358]

It seems like CFE223 looks really good in the Whelen. It stands to good reason if it is real good in a 308, it'll be just as good in the Whelen.

Are you planning on running some of them Rodger?

 

[truck driver]

I was looking for something that would help cut down on copper fouling and still get the velocity I wanted with case fill. I'm not looking to hot rod the Whelen. since I found a light load that really sings in the Whelen I've been thinking about some of this new powder that's coming out with copper inhibitors and help cut down on the cleaning process.
Though CFE223 doesn't give max velocity it does look to give good case fill which I think will contribute to better accuracy which is what I'm looking for. Plus I think it's a ball powder or very small grain.
I may have to get a can and try it .

 

[DrMike]

It is not a hot rod powder, but it develops enough powder to get the job done. May have to look at this when I get back to the Whelen.

 

[truck driver]

I'm also getting ready to send the M70 off to JES for a rebore and chambered to the 35WAI. I'm intrigued with all this 280AI talk that has been going on and would like to have a 35WAI but don't want to rechamber my classic though I think it would benefit from the AI chamber.
I've been putting that project on the back burner long enough and want to get it done since the M70 was bought for that purpose and the AI chamber will be different which makes it that much more interesting.

 

[truck driver]

I'm also thinking of using 280AI brass to make the 35WAI but need to do some comparison to see if it will work. The reason for using 280AI brass would be simplicity in forming brass by gust running it threw a 35WAI sizing die, at least that is my line of thinking.

 

[Dwh7271]

TD,
You may need to trim 280AI brass if used for the Whelen. Brass is 2.525 on 280 AI and 06 brass is 2.494.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks Dwh, my main concern with 280AI brass is the length from base to the shoulder and if it has to be set back to work for the 35WAI. By using the 280AI brass I was hoping to eliminate forming brass with 30-06 or standard Whelen brass.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Not gonna work Rodger. The 35 Whelen AI if it's like the 338 is set for .004" crush on the standard case. The 338 shoulder is just slightly longer than basic case. I'll try and get some pictures for you. The 280 AI has the shoulder pushed farther forward than the 280. That's why you can chamber a 280 in a 270 or 30-06 but if you use a 270 in a 280 it's even more dangerous because of the excessive headspace.

Using the SAMMI spec 280 AI is also slightly different than the wildcat that was run for years which cannot use the factory brass. I'm sure Jim will jump on and attest to that point.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks Jake that would be appreciated.

 

[SJB358]

That Whidden Hydraulic form die looks like it'd be pretty danged good for the Ackleys.

For most of us. 50 fireformed cases would last quite awhile unless your really hammering them. I've developed a few different loads for my 7mm MSM and have only lost a couple cases because of primer pockets. Annealed them up again recently and they are all still ticking along at 6-7 loads per case.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks Scotty, I looked at the Whidden web site and the video of the hydraulic die was interesting.
After about 2hrs on the cell with Jake he convinced me that using 280AI brass wouldn't work the way I thought it would so forming brass will have to happen with standard 35 Whelen brass which will be simple fire and form.

 

[Dwh7271]

TD,
I use fire forming to practice fundamentals. It's great practice.

 

[SJB358]

My fireforming loads are pretty accurate as well. Run's a 140 AB out at 3220. It's like a 280 Ackley really, recoil is very mild and cases come out beautiful. Matter of fact, I need to load up some more of them soon and get 50 cases ready for hunting season.

 

[JD338]

Roger,

RL15 makes the standard 35 Whelen come to life.
There is a marginal gain going from the 35 Whelen to the 35 Whelen AI. Going to a wildcat case based off the 280AI might get you closer to where you want to be.

JD338

 

[truck driver]

Jim PM sent.

 

[truck driver]

Called JES today and got the figures for the rebore and chambering for the 35Whelen AI. Since the barrel has to be set back it will cost a little more but I knew that to begin with. The M70 will be heading to OR. for some work.

 

[SJB358]

Good deal. Make sure you send him some rounds with the rifle so he can test fire it. I had to send the Newton back because he didn't have anything to test it out with. It wasn't fully cleaned up so I have to send it back. A handful of rounds should get it done.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Awesome man. That's one reason I chose to go with the 9.3 no setback so I still have a 24" tube on mine. That's why it took me a bit longer to find the proper donor.