Range Day - 7mm RM

[boomer68]

Got out to the range to start my load development and here are the preliminary results.
Rifle is a Weatherby Mk V Accumark RC.

Load:

Barnes 160gr TSX
RL25
W-W brass
CCI-250
3.240" OAL

Started at 59grs, then 61 (2 shots) and last target was 63

Should I try H-1000? Play with seating depth?

Looking for an all round load to cover deer up to elk.

 

[Guy Miner]

What? They don't sell 160 grain Noslers up there? :grin:

With the 160, my favorite powder for the 7mm Remington magnum was RL-22. Results were over 3,000 fps and easily sub MOA accuracy, from a stock Remington 700 rifle.

Probably not a lot of help with your chosen bullet, my apologies. Just got to thinking about a 7mm mag load that worked well for me.

Guy

 

[TackDriver284]

If I were to try a load development, I would do in increments of .4 -.5 grain 3 shot groups instead of 2 grain increments for a better feel of what your rifles likes or doesn't before going to another powder. You may have missed a node somewhere. Try not to give up too quickly. RL 25 is a great powder. How far off the lands did you load them to? What was your velocity? Your 63 grain charge on the target is not bad, maybe a seating depth might tighten it up. According to QL, your charge weights seems pretty low. I would do a ladder test to see how fast you can push it and once you know your max and I would do a load work up to that max. You still have more room for more powder. Good luck.

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 160, Barnes 'TSX' 30291
Useable Case Capaci: 72.206 grain H2O = 4.688 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-25

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   92    61.20   2734    2656   43118  12041     99.6    1.383
-09.0   93    61.88   2764    2714   44519  12132     99.8    1.364
-08.0   95    62.56   2793    2772   45970  12216     99.9    1.347
-07.0   96    63.24   2823    2831   47471  12292    100.0    1.330
-06.0   97    63.92   2852    2890   49027  12361    100.0    1.313
-05.0   98    64.60   2881    2949   50640  12424    100.0    1.296
-04.0   99    65.28   2910    3009   52311  12484    100.0    1.277  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  100    65.96   2939    3068   54041  12544    100.0    1.258  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  101    66.64   2968    3129   55838  12603    100.0    1.239  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  102    67.32   2996    3189   57698  12661    100.0    1.221  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  103    68.00   3025    3250   59630  12718    100.0    1.202  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  104    68.68   3053    3311   61635  12774    100.0    1.184  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  105    69.36   3081    3373   63714  12829    100.0    1.167  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  106    70.04   3109    3435   65873  12883    100.0    1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  107    70.72   3137    3497   68116  12936    100.0    1.133  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  108    71.40   3165    3559   70447  12987    100.0    1.116  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    103    68.00   3141    3505   73100  12253    100.0    1.110  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    103    68.00   2846    2878   47874  13133     98.6    1.316

 

[jimbires]

Barnes bullets like to jump . do you know what your jump is ? I'd start out jumping about .070" . I see your COAL is about .050 shorter than saami specs, you could be jumping these to much . I'd do work up using .5gr powder increments . I'd say by using 2.0 gr powder increments you could easily be missing the sweet spot you're looking for . when trying to save components I'll do this ; if the first two shots look good I'd fire the third shot . if the first two are not close the third shot will not help the group any , you can take it home and pull it apart .

I shot the 160TSX in my 7 rem mag . it's a WBY ultralight . I used RL22 powder , fed 215 primer , ww brass , and if I remember right about a .070" jump . if I remember right I was at 3100 FPS . I had good accuracy , I just didn't like the on game results of the bullets so I stoped using them .

 

[jimbires]

I ran a powder chart for you . I'd say RL25 should be a good choice . I'd work with it more before I gave up on it .


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 160, Barnes 'TSX' 30291
Useable Case Capaci: 72.206 grain H2O = 4.688 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

27 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 94.5 67.6 4.38 3055 100.0 61000 13065 1.208 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N570 105.0 73.7 4.77 3048 95.6 57553 14925 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 100.5 71.4 4.63 3046 99.5 61000 13502 1.187 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 12 100.4 71.3 4.62 3045 99.5 61000 13474 1.187 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25 103.4 68.5 4.44 3044 100.0 61000 12757 1.190 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 97.5 66.3 4.29 3039 98.8 61000 13701 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 95.6 66.4 4.30 3039 100.0 61000 13257 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70 93.0 65.9 4.27 3037 100.0 61000 12865 1.184 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 96.5 66.0 4.27 3033 99.2 61000 13292 1.183 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 102.0 66.0 4.27 3033 99.2 61000 13292 1.183 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 97.8 69.2 4.48 3030 97.8 61000 13820 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 105.0 69.9 4.53 3029 99.4 59975 13672 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 105.0 69.9 4.53 3029 99.4 59975 13672 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 101.5 70.1 4.54 3021 99.4 61000 13045 1.177 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213 97.5 65.6 4.25 3021 99.1 61000 13184 1.181 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 97.7 65.7 4.26 3014 99.7 61000 13129 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15 97.7 65.7 4.26 3014 99.7 61000 13129 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 97.7 65.7 4.26 3014 99.7 61000 13129 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WXR 100.3 66.1 4.28 3013 99.7 61000 13149 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP15 100.3 66.1 4.28 3013 99.7 61000 13149 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Magnum 97.8 70.9 4.59 2999 100.0 61000 12577 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 101.2 68.7 4.45 2990 97.7 61000 13065 1.183 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R905 99.1 65.4 4.24 2985 98.8 61000 12884 1.200 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 94.4 62.5 4.05 2977 99.6 61000 12479 1.188 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 94.9 63.1 4.09 2974 99.7 61000 12534 1.196 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-23 99.8 65.0 4.21 2972 100.0 61000 11776 1.211 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-33 105.0 75.8 4.91 2970 95.0 53872 14500 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 95.6 63.6 4.12 2968 99.7 61000 12450 1.196 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 518 91.2 62.7 4.06 2967 100.0 61000 12142 1.203 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2217 105.0 69.1 4.48 2966 99.0 57612 12871 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 105.0 69.1 4.48 2966 99.0 57612 12871 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 90.5 62.2 4.03 2963 100.0 61000 12030 1.203 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-16 91.7 59.4 3.85 2955 100.0 61000 11527 1.210 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831 100.1 64.8 4.20 2954 98.6 61000 12452 1.193 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831 SC 96.2 64.8 4.20 2954 98.6 61000 12452 1.193 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA4 93.1 61.9 4.01 2953 99.6 61000 12240 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 93.1 61.9 4.01 2953 99.6 61000 12240 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 90.1 61.9 4.01 2953 99.6 61000 12240 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 90.0 59.3 3.84 2938 100.0 61000 11505 1.210 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S365 91.5 60.6 3.93 2936 100.0 61000 11141 1.218 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S385 95.0 63.9 4.14 2935 99.9 61000 11947 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester Supreme 780 93.8 65.8 4.27 2930 99.6 61000 11950 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R904 94.0 61.7 4.00 2928 99.1 61000 11993 1.196 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 80 105.0 75.8 4.91 2927 94.9 51278 14317 1.285
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 90.8 61.3 3.97 2927 100.0 61000 11734 1.209 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2225 105.0 70.3 4.55 2926 99.9 51312 13254 1.280
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 70.3 4.55 2926 99.9 51312 13254 1.280
Vihtavuori N165 100.1 65.9 4.27 2923 99.8 61000 11709 1.207 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4955 Enduron 97.6 63.2 4.09 2922 98.7 61000 12070 1.194 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 94.4 60.1 3.90 2919 100.0 61000 11259 1.220 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 3100 97.7 65.1 4.22 2917 100.0 61000 11544 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S071 103.3 65.1 4.22 2917 100.0 61000 11544 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N160 100.4 64.1 4.15 2912 99.0 61000 11785 1.199 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S070 90.1 59.3 3.84 2911 100.0 61000 11520 1.216 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2218 105.0 74.4 4.82 2910 93.0 50556 14576 1.278
Somchem S361 93.1 66.0 4.28 2898 98.6 61000 11794 1.207 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 92.4 59.5 3.85 2894 100.0 61000 10633 1.211 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D100 105.0 75.2 4.87 2867 90.3 58128 12394 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7977 Enduron 102.2 67.3 4.36 2867 92.6 61000 11766 1.196 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 24N41 105.0 74.4 4.82 2849 87.8 53173 12960 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217 105.0 68.8 4.46 2846 98.9 46576 13400 1.347
Hodgdon H870 105.0 72.2 4.68 2819 94.2 46330 13640 1.344
Vihtavuori N170 105.0 69.1 4.48 2807 92.7 53099 12318 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-50 105.0 75.6 4.90 2791 91.2 44815 13979 1.381
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 105.0 73.9 4.79 2720 82.8 46658 12953 1.399
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 74.4 4.82 2665 84.0 44014 12115 1.376
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 71.0 4.60 2661 79.7 44135 12090 1.372
SNPE Vectan SP 13 105.0 71.4 4.63 2617 88.5 40866 11909 1.423
Accurate 8700 105.0 72.9 4.73 2597 87.6 39821 11877 1.423
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 75.2 4.87 2576 84.3 38844 11959 1.445
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 71.4 4.63 2555 85.6 38440 11592 1.455
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 68.4 4.43 2363 61.4 34965 9181 1.498
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 68.4 4.43 2333 65.8 33165 9613 1.532
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 68.4 4.43 1705 31.1 18936 4611 1.988

 

[JD338]

RL22 is always a good. choice. It will get you the speed and accuracy you are looking for.

JD338

 

[hereinaz]

Love the 7mm rem mag. Its what I have. I did my first load development and reloading ever for it. I had no mentor, except what I have learned from folks like these on this forum.

I suggest you do make your load development more refined, meaning don't jump so far with powder charges between loads. Like was pointed out, you could have missed a load.

I have only done load development once, so I am a total rookie. But, I followed Dan Newberry's OCW method (Optimal Charge Weight) very closely. I think I was jumping by .4 grains between charges. I had 6 or 7 loads, that I reverse engineered starting at .4 grains above book max for my bullet, then going down. I also had three test charges to foul the barrel and work up to my first charge, to test for pressure signs. And, of course, I shot from lowest charge up and watched for pressure signs as the charge increased.

My best node according to the OCW method was found with three charges within one grain.

It wasn't my most accurate group, those three groups just had the closest POI. .2 grains under max was my most accurate group, but the POI was move pretty far away from the other three groups.

So, with Berger, I took the powder charge in the middle of the node, and then started changing seating depth. My Bergers are similar to Barnes, that some like a jump to get better accuracy.

I had used the Hornady comparator tool to measure my chamber for throat depth and started .005 off the lands. I used the Hornaday comparator tool to test bullet seating, measuring off the ogive.

Anyhow, I started seating depth testing according to what Berger suggested on their website.

By the second seating depth change, I had a load that shot bullets touching at 200 yards. I think it was part luck, but I never would have found it without following a well developed system (regardless of whether one believes the theory behind it).

Here is a three shot group at 200 yards after I found a better seating depth. The first two touched, and I think the third shot moved in large measure because the barrel was warming (based on previous experience during load development).



I have a heavy sporter barrel, but it still gets really warm by the third shot. And, I found that my point of impact was different from a warm barrel! So, control your experiment by shooting the same temperature barrel...

 

[hereinaz]

Not sure your skill, but I know that my groups have shrunk more because I learned to be a better shooter, than because I have better ammo... Big factors, I leveled my reticle on my scope, I put on a bubble to prevent cant, learned to load my bipod, I got better trigger control, I have better breathing, I use more consistent form behind the rifle, I find natural point of aim, etc.

To all that, I am grateful for forums like this. Before, I think I traded away a great shooting gun, because I didn't really know how to shoot...

 

[Math Teacher]

This may have nothing to do with your groups, but i would lose the florescent orange targets. I know they are popular because they are bright, but the human eye has to fight to keep that color in focus. Ever notice that the target seems to pulsate? The best aiming device I have found is a two inch black square with a one inch white square in the center. Or if that is two big for the power range you are using, make it a one inch black square and a half inch white square. I paste them on my targets. It is very easy to consistently center a cross hair on such a target. You may be tempted to turn it 45 degrees to make it a diamond. Don't! It does not work as well as your cross hairs begin to blot out the corners.

 

[boomer68]

I took those loads directly from the Barnes manual. It listed 63grs as max, so that's why I stopped there. Didn't have any ejection issues. Going to try some 160 AB and see how they perform. Been close to 30yrs since loading for the 7RM. Last powder I used was H870 and Hornady 162 BTSP lol

 

[Guy Miner]

H870 was real popular for the 7mm Rem mag, way back when. I liked it, but that supply dried up long ago.

Guy

 

[elkeater2]

Not all Accumarks were created equal. Some had some manufacture and quality problems which individual owners have had to have addressed. Not sure of the age or history on yours. Before pouring a bunch of components and money down the tube tightening up those groups, I suggest verifying the rifle itself is accurate. Not all Weatherby Accumarks even had a 1 MOA guarantee, I believe. We know these things from personal experience. With a scope mounted properly, factory loads, good and repeatable bench technique, and skill behind the trigger you should get groups close to 1" at least. Your groups look like ours did, and ours were not consistent. Hope you can get it figured out!
EE2

 

[boomer68]

Just an update...

Tried H1000 with the 140gr TTSX
COL 3.230"
W-W case
WLRM

 

[SJB358]

Looks pretty good around 70 grains of H1000.. Bet that would shrink up pretty easily. Any idea on speeds with the 140?

 

[mjcmichigan]

So here's a question of mine. Notice at 70g, it's a vertical group. When I see that, I start working on getting the jump right. Then I go back to tweaking the powder. I figure once I have the a pretty decent load. The jump will get me 50-70% there, then I can tweak the speed. Does anyone else get excited by the vertical strings?


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[FOTIS]

Your powders are too slow for your bullet weights. Try 66 rl 22 with the 160s and 67-69 with the 140s.

With an accumark your groups should be well under MOA especially an RC model

 

[boomer68]

I would like to try RL22 but it's difficult to find up here. RL23 is easier to get. Oh, and I got some 140 & 160 AB as well as 160 PT to try.


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[DrMike]

Rssty Wood has almost all the ReLoder powders (including RL22) in stock now.

http://www.rustywood.ca/shop/smokeless-powder/

How close to the BC border are you? I almost always have RL22 on hand.

 

[TackDriver284]

I am pretty sure you can find a good node with .4 to .5 increments instead of 2 grain increments as I explained in my previous post. It helps refine it more, you may have missed nodes in between the 2 grain gaps. How far off the lands are you?

 

[hereinaz]

I am pretty sure you can find a good node with .4 to .5 increments instead of 2 grain increments as I explained in my previous post. It helps refine it more, you may have missed nodes in between the 2 grain gaps. How far off the lands are you?

Yep, I went in .4 increments, following the OCW method of 7 to 10 percent increases.

I would suggest following the OCW exactly as Dan Newberry details it. It worked for me. But, I had to read it a bunch to figure out why.

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