Reloading for precision

[ScreaminEagle]

I have been reloading for only a couple years now and I have never worried about trimming the cases, turning the case necks, annealing, or other finer points to reloading. When should I trim? How do I know what is the perfect length to trim to? Can anyone explain this stuff to me or know of a place where I could get a movie about this stuff? I always learn better by watching. I have come up with some very accurate loads without doing these things, but as I have said before I am completely addicted to the hobby and would like to never stop improving!

 

[JD338]

The best reference is in the front of the reloading manuals. YouTube also has a lot of video clips on various reloading steps.
Case trimming depends on the cartridge, brass, your rifles chamber, how warm you load, and how well you lube the case and case mouth. You can usually expect to trim after 3-5 loadings, YMMV. You should trim to the min length.

JD338

 

[longwinters]

JD is right on. Typically I only have to trim my brass once in its lifetime....which is good cuz I hate trimming brass. There are several different ways to anneal. The easiest is to buy your brass from companies that have already done it. Otherwise just hold the shoulder/neck over a candle, spinning it, until it starts to get hot on your fingers (you are holding the other end of course). Wipe it off and drop in water.

Long

 

[Guy Miner]

Case trimming isn't really a finer point, it's basic reloading - although some cartridge cases don't stretch much, others do. Enough to become unsafe after a few firing/reloading cycles.

What happens is that the neck on a bottleneck rifle case can get too long to fit properly in the chamber. The intrepid loader/shooter loads 'em up anyway, then crams the loaded cartridge into the chamber with a little muscle-power on the bolt and fires - creating an over-pressure situation because the case was really too long for the chamber by that point.

Some cases, like lightly loaded .38 specials, I really never have to trim. Others, like the 6mm Rem, I end up trimming fairly frequently. That's just basic stuff - measure the cases and trim them when necessary.

---------------------------------

When you want to really improve your accuracy, a very carefully tailored handload, matched to your rifle chamber, can yield very impressive results. You can take it a step at a time. For starters though, I'd recommend:

1. Start with consistent, high-quality components. Use match grade primers, brass & bullets when available. They're called "match" for a reason. All the same brass, all the same primers, all the same bullets.

2. A high-quality bullet-seating die, such as a Redding seating die, can help make sure the bullet is truly seated straight, with minimal runout. Switching to a match-type seating die made the biggest single improvement in my loading - as seen downrange with higher scores & tighter groups. BTW - it seems to me that seating depth can have quite an influence on accuracy as well.

There's more, but those two things; consistent, quality components and a darned good seating die, made a lot of improvement on my loads.

Regards, Guy

 

[Elkman]

screamin
Guy is right, more accuracy, generally means more fiddleing with the case. But there are minimums you "must" do and one of them is to make sure that the overall case length is within standards. You must also resize and check for cracks and be aware of loose fitting primers. You don't have to clean them, anneal them, ream the necks, weigh them or any of that and can still shoot small groups in certain rifles. Thats my .02 :grin: :grin:

 

[DrMike]

I don't think of trimming as one of the finer points of hand loading. As Guy stated, it is basic. Get a good case trimmer and despite the bother, you'll consistently turn out far more accurate ammo than you have heretofore.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks guys this is why I joined the forum, to learn!

 

[HTDUCK]

I take every new case and clean the burrs out of the flash hole.
It can be tedious to do.
Does it really make a difference?
Don't know but I don't figure it hurts anything.Only have to do it once.
I figure good consistent ignition is a plus.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Here's something that might help you while you are trying to figure out what to worry about next:

What is the Accuracy progression?
You are never more accurate then your weakest link. Here's my basic vision of the basic evolution shooters/reloader go through as they go from beginner to world class expert. This is not fixed in stone, and you will see cross over between levels. I welcome comments where others think this outline can be improved.

Level Zero:
Out of the box factory gun, standard factory ammo, cheap Chinese scope with parallax.

Level one:
Rifle: Out of the box gun, trigger adjusted, barrel free floated, recoil pad added. These are all simple low cost adjustments within the capabilities of the typical fixer-upper.

Scope: $150-$250. Parallax free at typical hunting ranges. Leupold rifleman to Leupold VX II

Ammo: Premium ammo, or Beginning reloader. Equipment consists of the typical kit, such as an RCBS rockchucker kit with standard dies. He's reloading factory fired cases, every box of cases if from a different lot, if not different brands. All cases are full length resized. The loader experiments with different components, power, bullets, and primers for accuracy. An advanced level one loader may try to only buy loaded ammo of the same manufacture.

Level Two:

Rifle: As level one, plus a bedded action. and/or upgraded stock, drop in trigger. These are still relatively simple adjustments that take a little more skill or money.

Scope: Parallax adjustment $250+ Leupold VXII to VXIII

The level two loader attempts to squeeze everything they can out of stock equipment. This level is highlighted by advanced case prep, and advanced usage of standard equipment. The level two loader will buy bulk brass, all of the same lot number, weight sort, and debur the flash holes. They will use advanced sizing techniques, such as the partial full length size, and begin adjusting COAL. The loader may use standard neck sizing dies. New equipment should include a chronograph. At this level you ammo may surpass the quality of the average hunting rifle.

Level Three:
this level is about getting everything to line up perfectly with the bore.

Rifle: Rifle is rebarreled with a custom barrel, action is printed (action squared, bolt face squared, lugs lapped)

Scope: $400.00+ Leupold VXIII+

Ammo: In order to get everything to line up perfectly, we begin using benchrest/competition die set, and advanced case prep. This usually includes benchrest/competition dies sets, Bushing style neck sizing dies and neck turning. This level is also highlighted by concentricity and runout gauges.

Level 4:

Rifle: Purpose built target rifle. Single shot action, such as a Remington 40xbr, Nesika, or other $1000+ action. Top of the line custom barrel, Lilja, Kriger, Lawton, Chanlin ect. These rifles may include a tight throat, and tight neck. They may be out of SAMMI spec and unable to fire over the counter ammunition. The loader may actually do all the above described case prep to create a dummy round, with the anticipated preferred bullet and COAL to provide to the gunsmith before he even begins work on the rifle. Cartridge will be selected for accuracy, usually shot and fat, 220 Waldog, 6mm PPC, 6.5x284, .308, .338 Lapua.

Scope: $1000.00+ Leupold target, or Leupold Mark 4.

Ammo: You may also see arbor presses, and these shooters may use custom bullets from small houses.

Level 5:
Begin swaging your own custom bullets:
http://www.corbins.com/

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Great write up A_S! You are dead on when it comes to the levels. I am at a level 2. It's funny, just the other day I was thinking about getting a chrony.

 

[JD338]

A_S

You nailed it buddy, well said.

JD338

 

[hubcap]

I think I,m about a 1 and 7/8. Still ignore flash holes. I have a couple 1970,s vintage scopes by redfield and leupold that did not cost any where near 250 bucks. My first reloads were made with a hand Lee loader. That got me to level 0.5. My first chrony in 1982, may have got me to a solid level one. I,m going to need at least one newer more expensive scope or a new chrony to be a solid two perhaps. Agree with the sniper on the level theory. Pretty good analogy.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Antelope_Sniper

I just realized how pathetic my efforts have been. I just added up all my cross levels and back levels and half and quarter levels and I came out with a -1.5
How embarrassing!
My only salvation at this point is to buy another rifle :grin:
Excellent description of the progression and I have to say I picked up several pointers from you along the way.
Thanks
Greg

 

[Mountain Goat]

Sometimes many of us progress to the next level, take what we can from it and return to the previous level. I can go without the neck sizing dies, custom dies, or match grade dies, but I will not load without a chornograph, even if it is at the lower-end.

We also must realize where we stand with what we expect our handload to provide for us. I think just about all of us want to use our loads for hunting. What this means to me is to have a safe, reliable and funtionable load every time! This can't always be accomplished by progressing through the stages of handloading expertise. If one becomes accustom to a tight, under SAMMI spec chamber on a fully custom rig, then it's difficult to take the exact process used for that rifle's handloads and applying them to an out of the box sporter. What we need to learn is why it worked and how can I make the most out of the information that I have learned.

As an example, one of the reasons that I haven't tried Berger bullets is because they recommend that they be seated just into the lands for best accuracy. I interpret this as a potential disaster waiting to happen while getting the shot of a lifetime during a rain, mud, snow, wind, hail. sleet dust and rust fest.

The same goes for loading right up to the lands. I can easily get a few thousanths worth of grime on all of my stuff. No way I'm only leaving that amount of margin to get a shell chambered safely.

Neck sizing can lead to that nice crush fit of the cartridge that shoots so well out at the nice sunny range. I won't trust a crush fit on the shot of a lifetime hence; I full-lenght size my hunting rounds. They will feed and fit flawlessly everytime, at least barring an issue with the rifle. But that's a different story.

Now, before anyone feels isulted because they have neck-sized their hunting ammo for 30 years and never had a problem, let me just say that this is an example of how the stages of handloading, and what I've learned from them have determined my handload expectations. Sure, if I had a bench baby rifle, I would be all over the finite details in attempt to shave off .010" from my groups. I just found it fascinating that the stages of reloading for me taught me to never make a mistake and leave nothing to chance with your hunting loads.

Great thread guys!

 

[hubcap]

So mountain goat,if ya run your prepped cases thru the chamber as a QA step prior to loading would that eliminate the possibility of a case problem for your hunting loads. Thats what I do whether the cases are new, neck sized or full length sized. For hunting loads they get chamberd again after loading just to make sure. Anyway I can,t see any reason not to trust neck sized ammo as long as it chambers properly. Mountain Goat I don,t think you insulted anyone around here. Your comments will probably be well taken by most. :wink:

 

[ScreaminEagle]

This is becoming a really great thread guys! Thanks for all your input. Keep it up

 

[Guest]

I'm most assuredly all crossed up on my levels. I have moved up to many of the small tricks listed as higher level loading, but I use factory rifles, with $200-600 class scopes, and haven't ever re-bedded a rifle (yet).

It's interesting how we all do things just a little differently.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Dubyam and all of the forum folks,
Dubyam and several others have described what I do also. I pick up pointers and load for hunting and like to brag about a great load or rifle but I'll never shoot in serious competition. If I can get MOA from my hunting rifle I'm jazzed if better than MOA I'm thrilled because I start my loads for velocity and energy and back down just enough to get that MOA if I can. I'll bed or restock but with factory stuff I've modified. I check my loads for consistant function in the rifle before I use them to hunt but won't true or thin out the neck.
The benefits of this forum is that I can learn the tricks and when I have a problem I can ask for advice from the folks that "DO" shoot in serious competition or are serious about long range accuracy for accuracy sake.
I build rifles all the time but my definition of build isn't the same as serious builders'.
But I have fun :grin:
Greg

 

[DrMike]

I have fun

And that is what it is all about!

 

[ScreaminEagle]

For me if you ask for one thing that will improve accuracy, I will say a GOOD pillar job. I say good because I have seen many bed jobs that looked like they were done with about ten seconds of prep time. I have done about 6 pillar bed jobs and all have greatly improved the accuracy of the rifle. I also bed the recoil lug area and free float the barrel. It's time consuming, but in the end it's worth every minute.