cloverleaf
Handloader
- Sep 10, 2006
- 4,381
- 1,014
Oldtrader3":30g4jgxx said:
I call it the "Mooseberg". Ounce and a quarter Remington Buckhammer slugs are just sadistic. CL
Rifle damage using Lead Sleds!
- Thread starter duckcreekdick
- Start date
I call it the "Mooseberg". Ounce and a quarter Remington Buckhammer slugs are just sadistic. CL
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,278
- 2,989
You should see what a lead sled did to 3 leupolds from a 378 Bee!!!
bullet
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2007
- 4,973
- 8
FOTIS":1gqd0qqg said:
Hey, you back from Greece or still over there and how is your dad?
Now in reference to your post --YOU DIDN'T!!!! :shock:
So question...
I ordered up one of the dog-gone-good large shooting bags from Sinclair, with the idea of using their 'rubber shelf liner' trick to take some of the sting out of my lightweight magnum rifles.
I'm going to guess this isn't nearly as hard on the rifle as a lead sled, where the force is really just absorbed in the stock. Thoughts? I'd hate to damage that gorgeous turkish walnut, but now I'm getting paranoid.
I ordered up one of the dog-gone-good large shooting bags from Sinclair, with the idea of using their 'rubber shelf liner' trick to take some of the sting out of my lightweight magnum rifles.
I'm going to guess this isn't nearly as hard on the rifle as a lead sled, where the force is really just absorbed in the stock. Thoughts? I'd hate to damage that gorgeous turkish walnut, but now I'm getting paranoid.
G
Guest
Guest
If I understand how they're saying to use the shelf liner, you'll be putting it between the rifle forearm and the bag, and between the bag and the bench top? That should not add undue stress in the wrist area of the buttstock, which is where I understand these lead-sled related failures are occurring. I suspect the bag and rifle will still move, just less so, in this configuration, so recoil will be mitigated but not contained.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Riflescopes, the larger ones, already develop over two hundred pounds of stress and strain on a large caliber like the .378 Weatherby. Putting these scopes into a lead sled must double the stress on a large scope. It is a testament to scope design that they do not break more often than they do with sleds.
ridgewalker
Beginner
- Feb 7, 2012
- 83
- 0
Interesting. I used a Leadsled to test loads in a Sako 375 H&H with not an issue. I now am breaking in a Tikka T3 Lite SS in 300 WM. So far, so good. We'll see.
In clarifying I use one to break in a rifle, test loads, but final sight-in is off the shoulder from sand bags at 100, 200 and when possible 300 yards. My experience is they always shoot to a different point off the shoulder.
I'll shoot them off of field rests (bipods, pack, hat and jacket, etc.) for final testing once I get ready for a hunt.
Every gun/scope design is a little different. Fotis, I have destroyed a good Leupold on a springer pellet gun too (I have read your many problems with the Bee). Wood has it's issues as well and so do certain designs of injection molded stocks where the flow lines come together at the wrong place creating a potential weak "weld".
Unfortunately there is no easy answer for all situations. Everything has a weakness. Mine is I am older, weaker, blinder, have less stamina, and am smellier than I use to be. But I still work really well for certain things :lol: (never the things I want to do).
In clarifying I use one to break in a rifle, test loads, but final sight-in is off the shoulder from sand bags at 100, 200 and when possible 300 yards. My experience is they always shoot to a different point off the shoulder.
I'll shoot them off of field rests (bipods, pack, hat and jacket, etc.) for final testing once I get ready for a hunt.
Every gun/scope design is a little different. Fotis, I have destroyed a good Leupold on a springer pellet gun too (I have read your many problems with the Bee). Wood has it's issues as well and so do certain designs of injection molded stocks where the flow lines come together at the wrong place creating a potential weak "weld".
Unfortunately there is no easy answer for all situations. Everything has a weakness. Mine is I am older, weaker, blinder, have less stamina, and am smellier than I use to be. But I still work really well for certain things :lol: (never the things I want to do).
Not sure how the Lead Sled is being blamed for the damaged gun. Give some evidence or stop perpetuating this Internet myth.
The OP stated the user put excessive weight (need clarification) on the sled before firing. If used according to manual (up to 100 lbs of weight), there is no difference between the sled and your own body.
I've used the sled on many modern and C&R rifles with no damaging results (rifle & scope). This is user's error and not product related.
The OP stated the user put excessive weight (need clarification) on the sled before firing. If used according to manual (up to 100 lbs of weight), there is no difference between the sled and your own body.
I've used the sled on many modern and C&R rifles with no damaging results (rifle & scope). This is user's error and not product related.
FOTIS":ahemxozk said:
I am confused Fotis. Maybe I am mistaken but i thought I read your thread where you stopped using the lead sled and the 378 Bee still damaged the scopes?
Hmmm. I use the lead sled and with no issues on multiple calibers but nothing greater than the 338winmag. I place 50 pound on it. Perhaps the reason I see no issues is that my sled does move on every shot regardless of caliber thus no issue?
I never thought of the sled being something to negotiate an inability to handle the recoil. At least for me, the sled allows me to go to the range for half a day with multiple caliber rilfes and perform load testing without starting to flinch after 12-14 rounds thus affecting true load development. It also saves my shoulder after firing 40-70 rounds with multiple rifles.
I also remember many a threads for years where many people stated muzzle brakes were for those that can not handle a higher caliber recoil as well. (sigh) For me the brake allows for me to regain target acquisition almost immediately (and actually often never loosing it) especially with calibers like my 338winmag. My 7mm Rem Mag does not have a muzzle brake on it (not yet anyway), and the whip on it is so bad that it is very timely to get target acquisition after a shot fired.
Just my 1.5 cents
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
- 850
- 0
Run, when a rifle recoils it moves to the rear and you also move to the rear. With a lead sled and too much weight the rifle (and sled) doesn't move thereby transmitting all the energy to the wooden stock. I've seen a couple of damaged stocks and it definitely does happen.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Run, it is called inertia. If inertial force is high enough and reactive force in immoveable, something has to give and it is the weakest link that does so: the wrist of the gunstock and/or the scope.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,278
- 2,989
bullet":jnj0dp5l said:
So far all OK will be back on 7 May
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
- 5,983
FOTIS":47ocy20b said:
Looking forward to your return. Your family is in our prayers.
Big Rifle Man/OldTrader,
If the user put too much weight (over the recommended amount), then it's user's error, not the product's fault. How can anyone blame the sled if they don't follow the instruction? If used accordingly, the recoil will push the sled back on shooting table (just like your body moves back).
If someone uses a sled according to the direction and it still breaks a rifle/scope, I want to see that evidence.
This is like driving a car off a cliff on purpose and later blames the manufacturer for having an unsafe vehicle. Nonsense.
If the user put too much weight (over the recommended amount), then it's user's error, not the product's fault. How can anyone blame the sled if they don't follow the instruction? If used accordingly, the recoil will push the sled back on shooting table (just like your body moves back).
If someone uses a sled according to the direction and it still breaks a rifle/scope, I want to see that evidence.
This is like driving a car off a cliff on purpose and later blames the manufacturer for having an unsafe vehicle. Nonsense.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
That is what I said!
I use an unweighted lead sled..it can and will move at ignition. Never had any damage to anything including a $40 bsa sweet 3006 scope on a tikka that's seen some action. That goofy scope has tracked perfect since new...I've added marks to the turret for shooting to 550 yds...that silly rig will shoot right with my buddy's custom rifle w/fancy swarovsky. My whole gun is worth half his scope! Love plinking with it cause I have a lifetime supply of used brass and nosler blem j bullets.
I won't shoot the lead sled w/any wt though.
I won't shoot the lead sled w/any wt though.
- Thread starter
- #37
duckcreekdick
Beginner
- Jul 26, 2012
- 93
- 0
Run: I successfully Acraglassed the cracked wrist and magazine box area of this "internet myth" Lazermark Weatherby .340 Wby stock. Thankfully, the cracks were clean and there were no missing pieces, so the repair turned out nice. Since the customer is ordering a synthetic stock for it, I decided against putting in pins in order to keep the stock looking good. The Swarovski scope was not damaged, even though it slipped 1/2" in the rings. With the new synthetic stock and new bases and rings, my customer will be back shooting this rifle after learning a lesson in physics (equal and opposite reaction, etc.) the hard way.
Charlie-NY
Handloader
- Mar 11, 2005
- 1,419
- 850
I understand why the recoil forces act upon the weakest area of the stock (CRACK) but if the rifles recoil is arrested, why is there an adverse effect seen in the scope?
G
Guest
Guest
The scope is another area of recoil dissipation. The internal parts of the scope can loosen with heavy recoil (on some cheap scopes, with almost no recoil...) and if you arrest the rifle during recoil, it will transmit to the scope, the stock, and back into the barreled action. The barreled action is not going to be worse for the wear, as it's up to the task. The stock and scope are not designed to take that kind of abuse. Again, to use the car example, it's alright to open up the throttle wide open to get out into traffic. It's not alright to keep the throttle wide open all the time, as you will eventually lunch the motor.
For the non-hot-rodders and others who don't know what that term means, it means the motor is "out to lunch" or, put another way, busted. The term is interchangeable with "boat anchor," as well. As in, "you will eventually boat anchor the motor."
For the non-hot-rodders and others who don't know what that term means, it means the motor is "out to lunch" or, put another way, busted. The term is interchangeable with "boat anchor," as well. As in, "you will eventually boat anchor the motor."
