RUGER M77 FRONTIER RIFLE

[Harpersend]

First Post. I have been reading for a while and finally bit the bullet and signed on.

I have just aqquired my latest toy. It is a M77 New Model Frontier Rifle in .308 Win with the 16.5" barrel. I was wondering if anyone else had this rifle and a chrony here and could tell me what kind of velocity I could expect from this rifle. I will be reloading for this gun. I have worked up to max loads with three powders and 168 grain CT Ballistic Silvertips.

Varget - 46.0 grains
BL-C(2) - 46.5 grains
Reloader 15 - 44.0 grains

According to my manual I should be between 2700 and 2800 fps with a 24" tube. With my 16.5" tube I was guistimating I would be around 2300 to 2600 fps, but was hoping someone had some experience with this combo or something close.

I have been reloading off and on since the md 90's, but I am in a position now to enjoy more shooting and hunting; so i am diving back in head first.

Thanks,

Harpersend

 

[Ol` Joe]

Welcome to the boards.

I`m sorry I can`t be much help with your question , but I believe reducing the velocity ~30 fps per inch of barrel lgt lost will get you in the ball park.

 

[FOTIS]

First Post. I have been reading for a while and finally bit the bullet and signed on.

I have just aqquired my latest toy. It is a M77 New Model Frontier Rifle in .308 Win with the 16.5" barrel. I was wondering if anyone else had this rifle and a chrony here and could tell me what kind of velocity I could expect from this rifle. I will be reloading for this gun. I have worked up to max loads with three powders and 168 grain CT Ballistic Silvertips.

Varget - 46.0 grains
BL-C(2) - 46.5 grains
Reloader 15 - 44.0 grains

According to my manual I should be between 2700 and 2800 fps with a 24" tube. With my 16.5" tube I was guistimating I would be around 2300 to 2600 fps, but was hoping someone had some experience with this combo or something close.

I have been reloading off and on since the md 90's, but I am in a position now to enjoy more shooting and hunting; so i am diving back in head first.

Thanks,

Harpersend

Welcome to the forum . Glad to have you aboard.

Let me see if I can help.



Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalSilTip 51160
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 16.5 inch or 419.1 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 35.20 1975 1454 29252 8804 85.0 1.266
-18.0 82 36.08 2025 1529 31169 9117 86.3 1.232
-16.0 84 36.96 2075 1606 33188 9425 87.6 1.199
-14.0 86 37.84 2126 1686 35330 9727 88.9 1.167
-12.0 88 38.72 2177 1767 37612 10024 90.0 1.134
-10.0 90 39.60 2228 1851 40040 10314 91.2 1.101
-08.0 92 40.48 2279 1937 42627 10595 92.2 1.068
-06.0 94 41.36 2330 2025 45382 10868 93.2 1.036
-04.0 96 42.24 2382 2116 48318 11131 94.2 1.005
-02.0 98 43.12 2433 2208 51449 11382 95.1 0.976 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 44.00 2485 2303 54789 11622 95.9 0.948 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 102 44.88 2536 2399 58356 11849 96.6 0.920 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 105 45.76 2588 2498 62168 12062 97.3 0.894 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 46.64 2639 2599 66245 12260 97.9 0.868 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 47.52 2691 2701 70612 12443 98.4 0.843 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 48.40 2743 2806 75293 12608 98.9 0.819 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 44.00 2614 2549 65495 11681 99.5 0.876 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 44.00 2318 2005 44500 11019 88.5 1.041


Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalSilTip 51160
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 16.5 inch or 419.1 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 35.20 1982 1465 30614 8503 85.8 1.222
-18.0 85 36.08 2031 1538 32588 8798 87.1 1.199
-16.0 87 36.96 2080 1614 34687 9089 88.3 1.166
-14.0 89 37.84 2129 1691 36922 9376 89.5 1.134
-12.0 91 38.72 2179 1771 39301 9657 90.6 1.101
-10.0 93 39.60 2228 1852 41834 9933 91.7 1.069
-08.0 96 40.48 2278 1936 44531 10200 92.7 1.038
-06.0 98 41.36 2328 2022 47383 10460 93.6 1.007
-04.0 100 42.24 2378 2110 50412 10711 94.5 0.979
-02.0 102 43.12 2428 2200 53642 10952 95.3 0.950 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 44.00 2479 2292 57090 11182 96.1 0.924 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 44.88 2529 2386 60774 11401 96.8 0.897 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 45.76 2580 2482 64714 11607 97.4 0.872 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 46.64 2630 2580 68932 11799 98.0 0.848 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 47.52 2681 2680 73453 11978 98.5 0.824 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 48.40 2731 2783 78306 12141 98.9 0.801 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 44.00 2597 2517 67164 11257 99.5 0.860 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 44.00 2327 2020 47252 10632 89.3 1.005


Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalSilTip 51160
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 16.5 inch or 419.1 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 36.80 1995 1485 29194 9049 87.9 1.260
-18.0 79 37.72 2047 1563 31193 9363 89.2 1.226
-16.0 81 38.64 2099 1644 33336 9669 90.5 1.192
-14.0 83 39.56 2151 1726 35633 9969 91.7 1.159
-12.0 85 40.48 2204 1812 38088 10259 92.8 1.124
-10.0 87 41.40 2256 1899 40692 10539 93.9 1.090
-08.0 89 42.32 2309 1989 43465 10807 94.9 1.055
-06.0 90 43.24 2362 2081 46433 11064 95.8 1.023
-04.0 92 44.16 2415 2175 49613 11306 96.6 0.992
-02.0 94 45.08 2468 2272 53022 11534 97.3 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 46.00 2521 2371 56680 11746 98.0 0.932 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 98 46.92 2574 2471 60610 11941 98.5 0.904 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 47.84 2627 2574 64836 12118 99.0 0.877 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 102 48.76 2680 2679 69387 12275 99.4 0.850 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 49.68 2733 2786 74294 12411 99.7 0.825 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 106 50.60 2786 2895 79595 12526 99.9 0.800 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 46.00 2646 2612 68437 11553 100.0 0.860 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 46.00 2353 2065 45348 11308 91.5 1.026

 

[Big Squeeze]

First Post. I have been reading for a while and finally bit the bullet and signed on.

I have just aqquired my latest toy. It is a M77 New Model Frontier Rifle in .308 Win with the 16.5" barrel. I was wondering if anyone else had this rifle and a chrony here and could tell me what kind of velocity I could expect from this rifle. I will be reloading for this gun. I have worked up to max loads with three powders and 168 grain CT Ballistic Silvertips.

Varget - 46.0 grains
BL-C(2) - 46.5 grains
Reloader 15 - 44.0 grains

According to my manual I should be between 2700 and 2800 fps with a 24" tube. With my 16.5" tube I was guistimating I would be around 2300 to 2600 fps, but was hoping someone had some experience with this combo or something close.

I have been reloading off and on since the md 90's, but I am in a position now to enjoy more shooting and hunting; so i am diving back in head first.

Thanks,

Harpersend

................Big Squeeze to your rescue, somewhat!! :lol: :lol:

I have almost the same Frontier rifle, but in the .300 WSM (blued), which I bought in Mar `07. Unfortunately in late `06, Ruger discontinued the 300 & 325 WSM`s in the Frontier. I was told that it was due to patent legality reasons. I guess I got one of the last ones available.

I did own a full sized 9.5 lb w/scope 300 Win Vanguard for 35 years. Since I bought the Frontier, I have become quite a huge compact fan. On my hunts, it is extremely fast, quite manuverable, easy carrying, offers very impressive performance and is quite a refreshing change.

Congrats on your new Ruger Frontier! (`05 Guns & Ammo nominee for "Rifle of the Year")

In case you haven`t read this,,,,go to,,,shootingtimes.com,,,click "rifles" then scroll down and click on "page 5"......Then find the article "The Short Answer About Scout Style Rifles" by Dick Metcalf. His test rifle was the Ruger Frontier. That article really says it all.

Per his chrony findings and mine too, expect about a -4.5% loss in overall velocity vs a 24" tubed .308 with the same loadings and components. With my rifle and the chrony tests I`ve done with two other 24" 300 WSM`s, my actual losses averages 3.8% using the same 150, 180, & 200 gr bullets, using the same identical powders, OAL`s and charges.

There has been much debate and there are many detractors of the shorter tubes, saying that 50 fps, for every inch of shorter length is lost in velocity. Maybe in the old days, but not true now when it comes these shorty Frontiers.

Expect about 15 to 25 to maybe 30 fps of loss per inch, depending on your rifle vs a 24" 308. Fortunately, with my rifle, I am much closer in some loadings to the 15 fps spread and actually a little lower than 15 fps in others. Only chrony testing a 24" 308 along side your Frontier, will you know for sure what the average difference is.

With a shorter, handier package and a big game punch, my 300 WSM`s chrony performance levels do exceed a 26" tubed 30-06!

150 gr. @ 3118 fps (very near max)....180 gr @ 2934 fps (very near max).....& 200 gr. @ 2828 fps. ( at max). That extra 10+ grains of powder capacity over the `06, nicely makes up for the shorter Frontier barrel. A lighter, handier, more compact rifle with nearly the same performance as my old full sized 24" 300 Win was my goal.......Not too shabby!

Like mine, your Frontier may tolerate exceeding the reco`d book maximums by a grain or two without any bolt lift issues, shiny case heads or other pressure signs....Still, work your loads up very carefully.

BTW! I own a conventional scope and a scout scope. You can go both ways with your Frontier, further adding to its versatility depending
on your needs. Need a scope reco?

Regardless of the terrain, you will very much enjoy this rifle in the field. Imo, the Frontier is not only the best handling bolt rifle, it is also the quickest bolt carbine to the target.

It`s good to know that someone else on here owns a Frontier too.

Good luck with it!

 

[Guy Miner]

Hodgdon publishes some figures for the .308 with a 15" barrel, for those guys who use the single-shot pistols.

According to their data, a 168 Sierra over a max load of 46 grains of Varget, is moving at 2580 fps!

That's pretty doggone good for a short barrel. I'd anticipate your stubby barreled rifle to be somewhere in that vicinity.

Check out Hodgdon's online data, or pick up their annual manual for a few bucks. Very interesting stuff in there on the pistol length barrels.

Regards, Guy

 

[bullet]

I would certainly have to agree with Guy that Hodgdon's load would really be nice in a short barrel 308. I love Hodgdon powders because of the consistency I get with my groups but that even is from lot to lot of powder. I think their quality control is best. When I want to get excellent accuracy and acceptable velocities with no surprises I go with Hodgdon. I have found that other powders can give you at times faster velocities but not consistent group after group accuracy. Also, I don't find myself having to start over developing an accurate load when my lot runs out and I have to buy a new one. Good luck on your hand loading.

 

[Harpersend]

Thanks for the response guys.

I purchased the frontier rifle after trying to lug my 26" + B.O.S.S. Browning 7Mag through my family's land in GA. It was almost impossible to say the least and my sucessive hunts were with a Super Blackhawk 44, but I have never been a great shot with a pistol. This land was semi-clearcut 15 years ago and is in the ackward stage of some really large oaks and gum, but not enough to thwart out all the undergrowth.

This little 308 is going to be my goto woods gun now and I will be selecting the most accurate of my loads from above. Most of my shots will be within 100 yds with this gun, so 200 or 300 fps is not going to mak that much of a difference; just kind of wanted to know where was.

If the groups are not embarrasing, I may have a few pics............

 

[Harpersend]

I would certainly have to agree with Guy that Hodgdon's load would really be nice in a short barrel 308. I love Hodgdon powders because of the consistency I get with my groups but that even is from lot to lot of powder. I think their quality control is best. When I want to get excellent accuracy and acceptable velocities with no surprises I go with Hodgdon. I have found that other powders can give you at times faster velocities but not consistent group after group accuracy. Also, I don't find myself having to start over developing an accurate load when my lot runs out and I have to buy a new one. Good luck on your hand loading.

When i started reloading it was for my 243 / 270 / 30-30 contender, so most of my powder selection had been around them and the IMR powders (3031 & 4350). While workingup my max load in this rifle I shot each powder at its own target (mainly to let the barrel cool down some while I was changing them out), but in shooting that day I believe that Varget may be my goto powder for this little rifle. It had the smallest group with 5 shots from 5 different powder charges at about 2.5" to 3". I didn't measure it because I am doing my accuracy test this weekend the way I always do for my hunting rifles. I work up to max on 3 or 4 different powders and then find the one that groups the best of those and that is my hunting load in that rifle until I get a chance to really work up an accuracy round for the rifle. That usually comes later after I am real comfortable with the rifle.........

 

[Big Squeeze]

Hodgdon publishes some figures for the .308 with a 15" barrel, for those guys who use the single-shot pistols.

According to their data, a 168 Sierra over a max load of 46 grains of Varget, is moving at 2580 fps!

That's pretty doggone good for a short barrel. I'd anticipate your stubby barreled rifle to be somewhere in that vicinity.

Check out Hodgdon's online data, or pick up their annual manual for a few bucks. Very interesting stuff in there on the pistol length barrels.

Regards, Guy

.....................Very good Guy! I have a Hodgdon manual and that 15" 308 load slipped right through my memory banks.

In doing some math, what I find very interesting is that Hodgdon lists a 168 grainer from a 15" `er @ 2580, while the 24" falls somewhere between 2700 to 2800. In this case with a 9" difference in barrel length, the math for the .308 falls right in line with my own findings on my 300 WSM Frontier.

2700-2580= 120 fps divided by 9"= 13.33 fps per inch loss.
2800-2580= 220 fps " " " = 24.44 " " " " .

A 13 to 24 fps loss (per inch) difference in the grand scheme of things is really not that much. Better to be closer or at the 13 though! :wink:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Thanks for the response guys.

I purchased the frontier rifle after trying to lug my 26" + B.O.S.S. Browning 7Mag through my family's land in GA. It was almost impossible to say the least and my sucessive hunts were with a Super Blackhawk 44, but I have never been a great shot with a pistol. This land was semi-clearcut 15 years ago and is in the ackward stage of some really large oaks and gum, but not enough to thwart out all the undergrowth.

This little 308 is going to be my goto woods gun now and I will be selecting the most accurate of my loads from above. Most of my shots will be within 100 yds with this gun, so 200 or 300 fps is not going to mak that much of a difference; just kind of wanted to know where was.

If the groups are not embarrasing, I may have a few pics............

.....................That reminds me of my friend who bought a Remy Sendero (about 10+ lbs with a scope and sling), who then goes on a very long and difficult goat hunt. :lol: ...Oh! But that rifle looked so good he just had to have it...........That Sendero he says,, "will never see another goat hunt!" I LMAO!!....NO! You cannot borrow my Frontier! LOL!!! :lol:

 

[FOTIS]

After you chrono it I would be interested to see the results.

 

[Big Squeeze]

After you chrono it I would be interested to see the results.

...................Me too!.....I would also be interested in knowing your chrony results. Also, any differences between your 308 Frontier and a 24" 308, assuming you have access to a 24"er and can compare them.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Harpersend..................You may not have seen this, but the next time you are in the gun shop, look for the `08 "Ruger Buyer`s Guide & Catalog" magazine. There is a pic of an SR9 on the front cover.

In that magazine, there is a several page article on the Frontier by Wayne Van Zwoll starting on page 63, about when he took the Frontier to New Zealand for a big red stag hunt. A very good read that you should fine very interesting.

 

[Harpersend]

No range results to post, ; the weather just didn't want to become agreeable. It rained on me most of the weekend and when the rain left the wind showed up. I was able to check max load work ups on my 270 win with 140 AB's and the 308 win with some old 155 smkhpbtpm I had laying around from the 30-30 contender days.

I will be able to compare my 308 to my dad's 308 which is a Remington SPS with a 24" tube...... I will be reloading for both so i should be able to compare apples to apples...... It may be a granny smith to a red delicious, but an apple all the same........

 

[FOTIS]

OK no sweat....Take your time....