Seating Just On The Lands and Hunting
- Thread starter 338winmag
- Start date
HeathSexton
Handloader
- May 12, 2006
- 1,209
- 41
I have a couple that are just touching, I have never had a problem in any conditions.
NEVER and I mean NEVER seat to the lands for hunting ammo OR YOU WILL BE SORRY! I was doing this once and learned the hard way. Went opening day before light and got into my stand for deer hunting. Stayed until about 11: a.m. until I could no longer hold the two cups of coffee I had for breakfast and decided to walk out of the woods to my truck for relief and to eat a bite of lunch. When I went to unload my rifle to climb down out of the tree stand the bullet stuck in the bore and pulled loose from the case and the powder dumped all down into the rifle action. I did not have a cleaning rod with me to poke the bullet out with. I had to drive 70 miles round trip to go back to where I park my camper and take the rifle apart and clean it. I had been measuring my over all length from the bullet tip to the base of the cartridge. Some tips are shorter than others I found and it caused me to load the bullet until the ogive was closer to the lands and that caused the bullet to stick. You can back the bullet off the lands in 10 thousands at a time ladder and usually find another node where it will be accurate. Once you find the most accurate node in 10 thousands jumps load some 5 thousands on either side of that node and see if things get more accurate.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,536
- 6,589
For hunting loads, I prefer to allow at least 0.010 inches jump to the lands to avoid inadvertently pulling a bullet from the case and to ensure smooth feeding in a situation requiring rapid fire.
- Thread starter
- #5
Well I was kinda believing everyone would say, sure, no problem, you betcha..
I saw HeathSexton's reply and I started to believe in the tooth fairy, but then saw the next comments.
I have an incredible consistent almost every single time 1/2" clovers at .002 in the lands. If I move it out even .004 or .005, I loose it.
Bottom line: I was getting lazy :wink: I have not reload tested anything over .060. Gonna have to now.
Back to the range with this one rifle. I have a 7mm Rem Mag that is shooting consistent 5/8" - 1/2" groups. Embarrassing to say, it took me 53 rounds to find the sweet spot at .088 with the Sierra GK BT and .091 with the Hornady Interlock BT.
Nosler AB or Partitions are next.
The reloading compoent companies are starting to love me.
Thanks everyone
338winmag.
I saw HeathSexton's reply and I started to believe in the tooth fairy, but then saw the next comments.
I have an incredible consistent almost every single time 1/2" clovers at .002 in the lands. If I move it out even .004 or .005, I loose it.
Bottom line: I was getting lazy :wink: I have not reload tested anything over .060. Gonna have to now.
Back to the range with this one rifle. I have a 7mm Rem Mag that is shooting consistent 5/8" - 1/2" groups. Embarrassing to say, it took me 53 rounds to find the sweet spot at .088 with the Sierra GK BT and .091 with the Hornady Interlock BT.
Nosler AB or Partitions are next.
The reloading compoent companies are starting to love me.
Thanks everyone
338winmag.
HeathSexton
Handloader
- May 12, 2006
- 1,209
- 41
My .260 was that way, I fired over 300rounds with a 120NBT just touching the lands with great accuracy, if I backed it out any at all I got patterns instead of groups. Never had any problems unloading either.
This year I shot some 120 Federal loads that shot great, so I seated my 120's to that OAL and backed the charge down. Great accuracy at the factory OAL. They are way off the lands too.
Here is that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15928
This year I shot some 120 Federal loads that shot great, so I seated my 120's to that OAL and backed the charge down. Great accuracy at the factory OAL. They are way off the lands too.
Here is that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15928
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,536
- 6,589
You will occasionally find a load that demands incredible precision. I recently had a load developed for a 300 WSM that shot one hole at 0.005 inches off the lands. At 0.010 inches, the group opened to 1.25 inches, and continued to open as the bullet was seated deeper. I opted to avoid giving that recipe to the customer as it is too easy to vary the seating depth. There is always another load that will work equally well; it just requires time to find it.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
I start load testing 10-15 off the lands, none of my rifles are seated closer than ten off the lands.Rick.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,572
- 9,683
I agree with the others to seat .010" off the lands for hunting ammo.
FWIW, most rifles will have two accuracy nodes, one close to the lands and one off the lands. You found the close one, now you need to find the other node.
JD338
FWIW, most rifles will have two accuracy nodes, one close to the lands and one off the lands. You found the close one, now you need to find the other node.
JD338
Big Squeeze
Handloader
- May 29, 2007
- 828
- 0
.................NOPE!..... For hunting loads, I use whatever COAL my rifles prefer for best accuracy, that DO NOT exceed the magazine`s overall length in order to cycle the bolt effectively.338winmag":32mecpta said:
Most magazines are not long enough to seat a bullet up to and/or barely touching the lands, where one can load the magazine and then be able to cycle the bolt.
For hunting loads, the sweet spots for bullet jump are best found by beginning with the max COAL which the magazine will allow to also include bolt cycling and then backing off in increments of 10-15/1000ths for each series of loadings. Each time you change any loading component, start over.
If your particular rifle is only at its best with any load combo touching the lands (hard to believe), then that can raise certain issues when hunting. On the other hand, if you haven`t experimented enough with COALs beginning with barely less than your magazine`s length and working down from there, then you should for all your hunting loads.
If one has a bolt action, and for accuracy reasons or if by choice, cannot load the magazine and cycle the bolt when hunting, then all you have really is a single shot rather than a faster bolt repeater.
If you follow the above process I have to believe, that there is a COAL length for hunting which your rifle likes that enables bolt cycling.
I load at mag length and work back from there. I have very few rifles that can be loaded into the lands. I haven't found a rifle yet that won't group consistently well off the lands. I think if you start pushing back in decent increments you will find the 2nd node as Jim noted. Scotty
- Thread starter
- #13
Thanks all. I wanted to take the quick route but once I saw the replies, guess where I was this afternoon and just got back.. :roll:
Found the close to sweet spot. 2 consistent 1/2" groups and one sightly smaller than a 3/4" group. Now I can work to get it a tad bit closer group and return to rifle owner to practice before this hunting season.
Oh --> .090 off the lands is the number - I now have loaded 3 different rilfes that like it around that number.
I listened to everyone pro and con. Good points with each alternative. This reloading is for someone else so it is best to not disappoint one out in the field. Great suggestions and re-enforced thoughts.
Thanks all
338winmag
Found the close to sweet spot. 2 consistent 1/2" groups and one sightly smaller than a 3/4" group. Now I can work to get it a tad bit closer group and return to rifle owner to practice before this hunting season.
Oh --> .090 off the lands is the number - I now have loaded 3 different rilfes that like it around that number.
I listened to everyone pro and con. Good points with each alternative. This reloading is for someone else so it is best to not disappoint one out in the field. Great suggestions and re-enforced thoughts.
Thanks all
338winmag
