Sighting In An Rifle For A Youth Hunter

[scottelkhunter]

My 13 and 15 year old boys drew out for cow elk tags here in Utah. One of my boys will be using a Winchester Model 70 .300 WSM loaded with 64.0 grains of IMR4831 using a 165 grain Nosler AccuBond with an velocity of 2,978 fps. My other boy will be using a Winchester Model 70 30.06 loaded with 54.0 grains of IMR4831 using a 165 grain Nosler AccuBond with an velocity of 2,600 fps.
My question is when hunting elk here in Utah. What distance should I have my boys sighted in at? I have always sighted in at 3" high at a 100 yards, or is there an easier way using the ballistic table? Elk are usually taken out to 400-500 yards here in the west. I mainly hunt mule deer, so I don't have a lot of experience with elk.
Also will a Nosler AccuBond 165 grain bullet do the job on an elk, or should I load a 180 grain, or larger?

 

[Britz]

I want to admit that I don't Elk hunt, but I do hund deer in Mn out to 650 yards. (I like for people to know what kind of experience they are getting, so I don't sound like a big time hunter)

With that said, here are my sugestions:

have your rifle chronographed to check what the velocity is. They are never right on and usually the gun is shooting slower than what the books say it will do.

check out this sight: http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html

It's a jem! You should find out what the approximate elevation is that you are going to shoot at and you can correct for it when sighting in at home.

In my humble opinion, you should have your rifle sighted in for about 3 inches or less high at 100 becaus all your fast shots will be at closer ranges (in other words sight in for 200 or 250 so you will not have to adjust your scope to hit out to about 300 yards. Anything farther than 250 yards will require more time to shoot and you should be able to take the time to range your target and look at your tradjectory table to do the calculations. I think it is best to rely on turret adjustment for distences past 350 yards. Face it, if you don't have 10 seconds to adjust your scope, you shouldn't be shooting at the animal anyway because it is moving too fast.

Almost forgot, I think you should go with a 180 grain bullet for elk at that range, it gives you a little more power for the longer shot. Don't go any heavier than that with the WSM. I find that beyond 180 I loose too much powder capacity to push the bullet fast enough with my 300 wsm. It will do just fine with a good 180 grain load. I would go with a 180 BT, you will loose a little case capacity, but you will gain in BC. Also, if you load, IMHO you should find a good accurate shooter first and a fast round second. A slow well placed shot will take down more animals at range than a quick so so accurate one.
hope this helps
Mark.

 

[scottelkhunter]

Thanks for your advice Mark.

 

[Bigdog2n]

The name of the game is HUNTING, not SHOOTING!

Teach your kids how to hunt, how to get in close for a clean kill.

I doubt anyone's ever done a real accuate study, since they can't be right at every kill with a rangefinder, but most sucessful hunting I've done, and seen, heard of and even watched on media shows, has been less than 250 yards. I don't think most shooters can put their first shot on target even at those ranges, let alone past that.

3" high is Ok if you always hold low, or if you know what your doing, but not in the hands of a 13 and 15 year old with little experience.

In close a good 165gr slug may probably work, but even a big fat elk cow will go down faster with 180s or even 220s

Good Luck Good Hunting

 

[taylorce1]

Well I don't hunt in Utah, but here in Colorado a 4-500 yard shot on elk is rare. My longest shot to date on an elk is 250 yards and everything else has been inside 100 yards. Most of the people I talk to haven't taken too many shots over 300 yards on elk. I do have one friend who took an elk at 425 yards once. I've even taken a deer past 500 yards but I'm not sure I'd want to do that one again.

I'll never say that long range hunting is unethical, sometimes the situation dictates a longer than normal shot. This is where you will have to be a good mentor to your sons. If one of your sons is unsure of the shot encourage him to get closer, or to pass on the animal for a better opportunity later on. The rifles are certainly capable of long range hunting but make sure that your sons are before they pull a trigger on an elk.

 

[Powerstroke]

As the last couple stated, make sure your two sons are very comfortable and confident with their firearms. Heat of the moment and the X-hair on an elk a lot of practice goes right out the window.
My opinion ( and one of the very few that will say this ) Your 165grners are fine. A 3 to 400yrd shot is probably going to be max. My wife uses a .260 with 120gn B-tips for out December cow elk hunts here in CO. They have been taken from about 80yrds to aprox the 340yrd range and have yet to see one walk away.
Good luck to you and your boys !

 

[Britz]

As far as ethics goes, I will leave that to you because you have to know what your boys are like. I agree w/ powerstroke, but if they are good with their rifles, and patient, they will leave fewer Elk wounded than some yahoo from the city who borowed a buddies rifle to go out and shoot at Elk. I firmly believe that a snap shot at 200 is worse than a carfully aimed one at 500.

good luck.

 

[Bobby Mack Jr]

Congratulations on your boy's draws! One of my fondest hunting memories is my own son's first whitetail kill when he was 12. He's away at college now and I can hardly wait until he finishes school and has the time to accompany me to the elk woods for a couple of weeks.

I have killed a number of elk with a .30-06. My personal favorite load is a full dose of IMR 4350 pushing a 180 grain Nosler Partition protected point. I have also had good luck with the 180 grain AccuBond. I am getting about 2800 fps.

I sight in my rifle 2.6 inches high at 100 yards. This gives me a zero at about 250 yards and a little over three inches low at about 300 yards. In other words, the impact point of my shot will be within a roughly six inch diameter circle of point of aim from zero out to three hundred yards. Compare this to an elk's kill zone which is well over 18 inches in diameter and you will see the boys can aim for just behind the elk's shoulder and make a clean shot out to 300 yards without having to do any math.

Please spend some quality time at the range teaching the boys to shoot their rifles well. I take a .22 with me and alternate 5 shots with the .22 and 1 with the .30-06 when I'm practicing to help keep the expense low and also to save my shoulder from a flinch-causing bruise. I would also recommend a low recoil load for their first few trips to the range until they get used to the noise and recoil of their rifles.

I agree with the gentlemen above that an elk hunt is much more than an elk shoot. I personally have never taken a shot on game past about 250 yards. Not because I don't practice and shoot well that far, but because I enjoy the stalk and brain game as much (or more) than the shooting.

Good luck and congratulations on helping the future Daniel Boone and Jim Bridger get their start.

 

[old #7]

Go to Remington's web site and down load their free ballistic program.
You can adjust your fps, bullet weight, target distance and zero distance. You can also set your point blank range based on the kill zone size.
I shoot a 300 mag at elk and I use remington's ballistic calculator to find my point blank range out to 300 yds. If i shoot at a six inch target any where from 100 to 300 yds I don't have to hold over or under to make a kill. My shot might be 3 inches high or three inches low at any point out to 300yds but it doesn't matter because all of the shots will be inside the kill zone.
there is also some sticky's posted on this site that will lead you to ballistic calculators.