Single Digit SD, ES, and MAD. Is it really necessary!

[Desert Fox]

Reloading is about consistency. The way to make your reload consistent is to control or eliminate as much variables as possible. You know you achieved them once you start getting single digit reading from your chronograph. Now, you might ask your self is it really necessary. The answer to that is "it all depends on your accuracy requirements". To a Big Game Hunter, Predator Hunter, Plinkers and recreational shooters probably is not a necessity. But to a target and bench rest shooters, it's a must.

Now my question is, who among you go out on a limb to achieve this pinnacle of reloading. What are the methods you use to get there. In my experience, single digit SD, ES and MAD is easier to achieve with small caliber cartridge, specifically the short and fat cartridges like the 308, WSM and 223. Large magnum cartridge is almost impossible.

6.5-284 Norma with 140 grain Berger VLD

308 Winchester with 155 grain Lapua Scenar

7 WSM with 180 rain Berger VLD Almost but not quite.

 

[DrMike]

I get single digit SDs not infrequently. My goal for most of the rifles I work with is a SD of <1%. What is surprising is the number of times what I consider to be the least accurate load by looking at SD turns out to be the most accurate when I pull the trigger. In general, however, I would share your assessment that smaller cartridges and those that appear to be more efficient, give the tighter SDs.

 

[dlove]

I gotta get me one of those calculators for my chronograph. I've been doing all that math the hard way.

if you don't mind me asking, what powder are you running in the .308?

I've had some loads that would shoot DUP over and over again that shoot all over the paper and some that cloverleaf with ES of 70+.

 

[SJB358]

I gotta get me one of those calculators for my chronograph. I've been doing all that math the hard way.

if you don't mind me asking, what powder are you running in the .308?

I've had some loads that would shoot DUP over and over again that shoot all over the paper and some that cloverleaf with ES of 70+.

I am not sure what powder DF is using in his 308, but man, Varget and RL15 will make some great loads for me. I know there are a million others, but those two are pretty fast and I never have much trouble finding an accurate load.

These are some loads I kinda threw together to see how the 165 AB's would work in my wife's 308. I just used plain of WW cases, CCIBR2's and RL15.

Granted, there isn't anything special about the groups, but then again, I really didn't do much to make them shoot that well either. I think they were running mid to upper 2700's..

My good buddy has an old M700 ADL. Threw a 3x9 Redfield on it. He loaded up some 150 BT's (his first hand at reloading). He ran some Varget in the cases and worked up to a known load that Woodycreek lives by for his 308.

Again, nothing special about them, but it really didn't take much to make it shoot really well. I think the upper end loads were crowding 2900 or better.

 

[dlove]

those groups don't look bad at all. I really haven't been too picky about the .308. I've ben using IMR4895 and getting about an inch @ 2860. just yesterday morning, I loaded 50 rounds with W748, RL15, and Varget. the lyman book says 748 will get close to 3k with a 150gr. ....and just picked up a used vx2 3-9x50 to replace the simmons glass that it was wearing.

2949 with a 155 is impressive...

 

[SJB358]

those groups don't look bad at all. I really haven't been too picky about the .308. I've ben using IMR4895 and getting about an inch @ 2860. just yesterday morning, I loaded 50 rounds with W748, RL15, and Varget. the lyman book says 748 will get close to 3k with a 150gr. ....and just picked up a used vx2 3-9x50 to replace the simmons glass that it was wearing.

2949 with a 155 is impressive...

Those are all great powders you listed. All of them will do great things with the 308 most of the time. I kinda ran the gamut to get a good load from my 358 Win with 225 PT's and Sierra's. I tried H4895, AA2520, RL15, and Varget. All of them got to about the same speed, but W748 was the winner in accuracy, so that is what I run with that rifle. It is about the only rifle I use W748 in, but it works so why mess with it?

 

[Guest]

DF,
What Chrony do you use?

Don

 

[Desert Fox]

I get single digit SDs not infrequently. My goal for most of the rifles I work with is a SD of <1%. What is surprising is the number of times what I consider to be the least accurate load by looking at SD turns out to be the most accurate when I pull the trigger. In general, however, I would share your assessment that smaller cartridges and those that appear to be more efficient, give the tighter SDs.

Good observation DrMike. I agree that not all single digit SD and ES will automatically give you good groups. A good example is my 338 Lapua Ackley. I can not get a single digit ES and SD from it no matter what I do, but it will shoot dime size 5 shot group with boring regularity. I guess burning 95 grains of slow burning powder like Retumbo to propel a 300 grain bullet down a 30" tube will be asking too much.

 

[257 Ackley]

For me the next step in consistency took place with the time spent prepping the brass. Squaring primer pockets, flash holes, neck thickness and annealing after every third firing. The matches I started shooting in this year were only 600 yards, but testing at 100 yards with a chronograph gave me the information on what was important and what wasn't.

My hunting rifles that require being able to hit a deer sized target at 5-600 yards get the same treatment of brass as the target rifles now. The rifles used for large game under 300 yards only recieve minimal brass prep. Powder selection and seating depth seem to be the most important items when working up loads using a chronograph for these rifles, but there normally isn't single digit SD/ES either. The only requirement for a 300 yard rifle is that it shoots MOA with a hunting bullet for me.

The time spent creating the perfect load can be more work than it is worth for practical applications, but some of us are too anal to get past that point. :roll:

 

[Desert Fox]

if you don't mind me asking, what powder are you running in the .308?

I used Varget or Reloader 15 on the 155 grain Lapua Scenar and BLC-2 on 168 Nosler Comp and Berger VLD.

155 grain Lapua Scenar

168 grain Berger VLD

 

[Desert Fox]

DF,
What Chrony do you use?

Don

Don, I'm using an older Pact Professional Chronograph.

 

[DrMike]

As usual, Rommel, those are some enviable groups.

 

[sask boy]

Thank you for this post, for me it is very informative as I am just starting to attempt to get into this degree of accuracy.
Once my contract is finished I plan on being out @ the range & in my man cave learning every spare minute I have to get this hobby to the next level :mrgreen:
So guys I will be sending PMs cause I am a slow learner :shock:

Blessings,
Dan

 

[JD338]

I strive for single digit SD's but group size is the final dcision maker for my load. Sometimes the larger ES and SD loads shoot better.
I also prep my brass and square primer pockets.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

As usual, Rommel, those are some enviable groups.

Yeah, my head is hanging low DF! You make mine look like I am shooting 00 Buck!

 

[OU812]

I don't strive for single digit SD or ES, most of the time I don't even look at them on the chronograph. Now if I was a benchrest shooter or comp shooter I most certainly would care as your impressive groups show, great shooting by the way.

What I do strive for is repeatable big game hunting rifle accuracy. Once I get a load accurate enough for my liking all I care about from then on out is that is it repeatable day in and day out. I have to know where my first shot is going to go every time.


Bill

 

[DrMike]

Because I'm frequently working up loads for people who have invested heavily in a custom or semi-custom rifle, I do attempt to wring accuracy out of the rifle. Often that means observing the initial shooting, focusing on the loads with the lowest SD and repeating that particular load at various seating depths as I seek reproducible accuracy.