temp changes affecting RL-22

[TackDriver284]

I had a great load with 180 Accubonds and 74.4 grains of RL-22 with CCI-250 primers out of the 300 Win Mag back in the late spring. It was shooting half inch groups at 300 yards and haven't used it. I had 6 rounds left after running out of powder. I picked up 3 pounds of RL-22 last week and worked up a load ( 3 round charges ) from 74.0 to 74.8 grains and it shot horrible at 200 yards (1.75 to 2 inch groups at least). So I shot the last 6 remaining from the last batch that used to shoot well. This batch also shot horrible. The air temp from the late spring is around 75 degrees if i remember. When I shot this morning, it was 50 degrees. Would this be enough to cause a temp swing? I hear RL-22 has about 1.5 fps with each degree change. Not sure if I should go back to square one with RL-22 or switch to a more temp stable powder like H4831 and H1000 with the 180's? Should I go to a hotter primer?

 

[Guy Miner]

I remember running into issues with RL-22 & temp swings, but not to that degree. That was with a 300 Win Mag too.

It remains my favorite powder for the little 6mm Remington, and hasn't been particularly problematic in that rifle. Why not? I dunno.

There, how's that for some enlightening and educational commentary on RL-22?

Sorry I couldn't do better.

Guy

 

[Rol_P]

Reloder 22 was a favorite of mine in the 30-06 with 180 grain partitions and accubonds until I learned of the temperature sensitivity of the powder, which never caused me a significant problem as I do not shoot long range. I have since changed to IMR 4451 which seems quite stable in my limited experience.

Has your rifle been cleaned since the last good shooting sessions. Was it stored for a period of time without cleaning? Just two questions to put into the field. Sorry I cannot be more helpful.
Looking forward to hearing how you resolve the issue. Rol

 

[jimbires]

I haven't had a load fall apart that bad due to temp changes . you're only talking 25* , that's not much . the scope didn't come loose , or loose action screws maybe ?

 

[TackDriver284]

Going to give it a good cleaning with Bore Eliminator, check scope rings and bases and run a few more loads from 74 to 75.5 grains with RL-22 and see if that will work. If not, I'll switch to H1000

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Not in a 300mag but in my 6.5x55. Was given a box of older Speer .263 140 gr worked load of 45 grs RL22 that shot 5/8-3/4 in groups back in May-Apr. This Oct shot same load first two shots grouping the same and then it starting going WILD spraying shots 3-4 ins apart. I've used RL-22 with other 140gr bullets with no problems. Not sure what happened. Rifle is a Win Mod 70 Fwt. Dan.

 

[Bruce Mc]

I used Reloder 22 in my 7mm rem mag and experienced over a 100 fps variation from summer to fall, I guess around 30-40 degree change. I switched to H-1000 and found it very consistent. I still use Reloder 22 in .243 winchester and .257 Roberts. I have not seen the big velocity variation in those cartridges. Perhaps its a volume issue with Reloder 22.

 

[TackDriver284]

I am leaning to skip RL-22 after reading others comments, going to try a ladder test with H-1000 at 300 yards and see what pops up. Thanks fellas. I'll keep ya posted soon as the wind dies down, it will be howling the next few days.

 

[SJB358]

I haven't ever seen RL22 change that much from 75 to 50 degrees.. So, here is my theory, and please don't think I am talking about your shooting, and I know you can shoot, if you never shot multiple 3 shot groups at 300 yards at a 1/2" how do you know it was a 1/2" load. I am not saying it to be snarky or nothing like that, but until you put at least 5-6 rounds into a group over a few different sessions it is really hard to tell if anything really changed.

I would also attach your chronograph to the rifle or shoot over (whichever you have) and see what your speeds are now. Chances are, unless it is a different lot of powder, I can't see it changing too much with the 75 down to 50 degree mark. It just hasn't ever been that extreme of a problem for me.

I think running them over your chronograph will let you know where you're at TD. I remember seeing how well that rifle was shooting when you did the load work so I'd almost be surprised if anything fell apart. I'd get some chrono readings and then load back up to that speed. If the node was there at 75 degrees, I'd bet it won't be markedly different at your current temp.

I have seen 22 shift a bunch from 80 degree load development, and then dropping down to the 20's. Sometimes not enough to matter and sometimes it did affect POI. Just depended on the cartridge. Lot changes have been my biggest culprit, with Alliant and H powders.. Both of them have put me through the ringer a few times. I could be all wrong and washed up, but that would be my idea of what happened.

 

[BretN]

I had a similar problem this fall with RL19 and my 270 130gr Fed TBT load. In my case, I think some of it was due to the temp insensitivity of RL19, some due to a new lot of powder, but mostly because I cleaned the bore to bare metal. Once I shot a handful of rounds through it, the group started to come back to near MOA when it had been sub MOA in the summer. But with my typical 50 yard shot at deer, that probably won't matter. Different story for you guys out West.

 

[TackDriver284]

I haven't ever seen RL22 change that much from 75 to 50 degrees.. So, here is my theory, and please don't think I am talking about your shooting, and I know you can shoot, if you never shot multiple 3 shot groups at 300 yards at a 1/2" how do you know it was a 1/2" load. I am not saying it to be snarky or nothing like that, but until you put at least 5-6 rounds into a group over a few different sessions it is really hard to tell if anything really changed.

I would also attach your chronograph to the rifle or shoot over (whichever you have) and see what your speeds are now. Chances are, unless it is a different lot of powder, I can't see it changing too much with the 75 down to 50 degree mark. It just hasn't ever been that extreme of a problem for me.

I think running them over your chronograph will let you know where you're at TD. I remember seeing how well that rifle was shooting when you did the load work so I'd almost be surprised if anything fell apart. I'd get some chrono readings and then load back up to that speed. If the node was there at 75 degrees, I'd bet it won't be markedly different at your current temp.

I have seen 22 shift a bunch from 80 degree load development, and then dropping down to the 20's. Sometimes not enough to matter and sometimes it did affect POI. Just depended on the cartridge. Lot changes have been my biggest culprit, with Alliant and H powders.. Both of them have put me through the ringer a few times. I could be all wrong and washed up, but that would be my idea of what happened.

Scotty, I know you are not being snarky, but its great to get your honest opinions as well as others on here. It's how we learn from others. I did run them over a chrono through half of the shooting session until some drops of water from the roof slipped through a hole in the slanted roof ( condensation)and landed on my printer buttons of my Oehler P-35 and it stopped working, the printer kept rolling nonstop. ( Dried up soon as I got home, and it seems to be working again ) Out of the 5 three round charges from 74.0 to 74.8 grains in .2 increments, I only recorded two three round charges ( 74 and 74.2 grains) and it was all over the map, there was about 50 fps variation for each of those two 3 round groups. My old load was 74.4 grains / 5 fps ES and I assumed I'll be close to that area where my node was found with the old batch. This new load is a new can of RL-22 and a new box of 180 Accubonds. I added two pictures of two round groups ( old batch )at 300 yards that I did last spring. The first 2 rounds in one ragged hole, then I waited 5 minutes and did a 2nd two round group to confirm. I guessed it called it good, then I sighted it in at 200 yards, the bullets barely touched each other as well. It was the last time I shot that rifle until the other day.

I had cleaned that rifle after that horrible shooting session, it was so dirty of carbon with some green color on the patches. I'll make sure the rings, bases and action screws are snug when i get to the range again.

I just loaded up another batch from 73.8 grains to 76 grains of RL-22 and another batch from 79.5 to 81.5 grains of H-1000, and I'll try both hopefully something good comes out of it. I haven't given up on that RL-22 yet, but I am sure the H-1000 surpasses it easily when it comes to vouch for the better temp stable powders.

I'll post results of these as so on as I get a chance to go out there in a couple of days. Thanks for all your opinions / advice fellas.

 

[preacher]

We used 76gr R22 and the older Barnes 180xbt in South Africa and Namibia. It worked swell. In Namibia, it got down to 20F at night and "by noon" it was 120F! No issues with R22 in our 300s! Now, I used 61gr/R22/150NBT in a 280AI for awhile. In Utah, at 32F to 50F it was just fine. One February I took it to Texas for exotics. At that lower elevation, and about 75F, I killed a ram and the bolt was frozen. I finally got it open and the primer was very, very flat. Anytime you see that in an Ackley case...that's hot! ha. Go figure...

 

[SJB358]

TD, I know you’ll sort it out but just as soon as you said “new lot” of powder I womdered what would happen. Especially since you are really at the top end of a 300 Win with a 180. I think you’re load is solid but where your node is, it’s at the Tippetty top for any of the bunch of 300 Wins I’ve seen with a 180 grain Bullet so I’m betting on the lot change being your culprit.

22 has been great to me and I think some of it’s temp sensitivity is from a fellow or gal doing load work early in the year and using a new lot in the fall/winter and thinking its temp when it is probably more the lot change. 75 degrees to 50 degrees shouldn’t be hardly noticeable or at least in my usage of it.