The 7mm WSM and RL 17, IMR 4831 & N204

[lowmileage]

Hi all, and thanks for the add. I'm starting to handload a 7mm WSM that I bought in the mid 90's, better late than never. The 3 powders I have mentioned in the title are the ones I want to try and I'm starting with 2 different bullets: the 154 Hornady and the 145 Speer Grand Slam. Problem being load differences between sources. Barnes say RL 17 starting at 52.7 for the 145 grain with a max of 58.5 for their 145 LRX. Alliant says a max of 63.5 for the Speer 145. They don't give a start load but it you back off 8% of max it would be 58.5 grains. So Alliant's starting load is Barnes max?? Hodgdon for the 145 grain bullet and IMR 4891, 60.0 start and 63.7 max - I would back off the start to 58.5. I couldn't find another source for the 145 gr and IMR 4831 but Nosler says for the 150 grain, a starting load of 58.5 grain and a max of 62.5. That's fairly close and I would start with the lower end and 58.5 grains with IMR 4831 and the 145 grain bullet. N204 powder data and the 7mm WSM is almost unobtainable. I could source up anything from any reloading manual but another site listed 68.3 grains as "near max" for N204 and a 140 grain bullet. That to me would mean about 61.0 as a starting load with the 145 grain bullet (68.3 less 10% for the 5 grain heavier weight). The same site lists 65.1 grain of N204 as "near max" for a 160 grain bullet. For the 154 grain bullet I then would start with 60.0 grains of N204. Anyone do any shooting with the 7mm WSM and these 3 powders and have an explanation to the differences with regard to RL 17 powder?
I do not recommend or endorse these loads listed above as they MAY NOT BE SAFE IN YOUR RIFLE.

 

[SJB358]

I have no experience in my 7 WSM with the powders you've listed. All of them look pretty good to me, but I just haven't used much other than H1000, Retumbo, RL22 and RL26 in mine.

Here are some runs with the powders you have listed though for the 145 Speer GS

RL17

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 145, Speer GRSLAM 1632
Useable Case Capaci: 75.655 grain H2O = 4.912 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.359% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.6 84 61.70 3055 3006 54718 11964 100.0 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 85 61.93 3065 3025 55324 11987 100.0 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 85 62.16 3075 3044 55936 12011 100.0 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
-02.5 85 62.39 3084 3063 56554 12035 100.0 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 86 62.62 3094 3082 57179 12058 100.0 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 86 62.85 3103 3101 57810 12081 100.0 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 86 63.08 3113 3120 58447 12105 100.0 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 87 63.31 3123 3139 59091 12128 100.0 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 87 63.54 3132 3158 59741 12151 100.0 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 87 63.77 3142 3178 60398 12174 100.0 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 87 64.00 3151 3197 61062 12197 100.0 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 88 64.23 3160 3216 61732 12219 100.0 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 88 64.46 3170 3235 62410 12242 100.0 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 88 64.69 3179 3255 63094 12264 100.0 1.137 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 89 64.92 3189 3274 63786 12287 100.0 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 89 65.15 3198 3293 64484 12309 100.0 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 87 64.00 3248 3397 72868 11838 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 87 64.00 3004 2905 49259 12698 99.9 1.262

IMR4831

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 145, Speer GRSLAM 1632
Useable Case Capaci: 75.655 grain H2O = 4.912 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.354% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.5 94 62.70 3026 2947 56582 11616 100.0 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 94 62.93 3035 2966 57191 11637 100.0 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
-02.8 95 63.16 3045 2985 57806 11658 100.0 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
-02.5 95 63.39 3054 3003 58427 11679 100.0 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 95 63.62 3064 3022 59055 11700 100.0 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 96 63.85 3073 3041 59689 11721 100.0 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 96 64.08 3083 3060 60329 11741 100.0 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 96 64.31 3092 3078 60976 11762 100.0 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 97 64.54 3102 3097 61630 11782 100.0 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 97 64.77 3111 3116 62290 11803 100.0 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 65.00 3120 3135 62957 11823 100.0 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 98 65.23 3130 3154 63631 11843 100.0 1.149 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 98 65.46 3139 3173 64312 11863 100.0 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 98 65.69 3149 3192 65000 11883 100.0 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 99 65.92 3158 3211 65695 11903 100.0 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 99 66.15 3167 3230 66398 11922 100.0 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 65.00 3218 3334 74203 11450 100.0 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 65.00 2972 2844 51634 12237 99.3 1.261

N204

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 145, Speer GRSLAM 1632
Useable Case Capaci: 75.655 grain H2O = 4.912 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Norma 204

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.343% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.4 90 64.70 3060 3016 57154 12504 98.9 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
-03.1 90 64.93 3071 3036 57772 12538 99.0 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
-02.7 90 65.16 3081 3057 58397 12571 99.0 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
-02.4 91 65.39 3092 3077 59028 12604 99.1 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 91 65.62 3102 3098 59667 12636 99.2 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 91 65.85 3112 3119 60312 12668 99.2 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 92 66.08 3123 3139 60964 12699 99.3 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 92 66.31 3133 3160 61624 12729 99.4 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 92 66.54 3143 3181 62290 12759 99.4 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
-00.3 93 66.77 3153 3202 62964 12788 99.5 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 93 67.00 3164 3223 63645 12817 99.5 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.3 93 67.23 3174 3244 64334 12845 99.6 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 94 67.46 3184 3265 65030 12872 99.6 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 94 67.69 3195 3286 65734 12899 99.7 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 94 67.92 3205 3307 66446 12925 99.7 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.7 95 68.15 3215 3328 67165 12951 99.8 1.099 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 67.00 3287 3480 74852 12433 100.0 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 67.00 2989 2877 52570 12657 95.3 1.227

 

[SJB358]

154 Hornady Interlock

RL17

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 154, Hornady SP 2830
Useable Case Capaci: 74.217 grain H2O = 4.819 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.365% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.7 85 60.70 2995 3068 56686 11777 100.0 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 85 60.93 3005 3087 57321 11802 100.0 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 85 61.16 3014 3106 57963 11826 100.0 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 86 61.39 3023 3126 58611 11850 100.0 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 86 61.62 3033 3145 59266 11874 100.0 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 86 61.85 3042 3165 59928 11898 100.0 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
-01.5 87 62.08 3052 3184 60596 11922 100.0 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 87 62.31 3061 3204 61271 11946 100.0 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 87 62.54 3070 3223 61954 11970 100.0 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 87 62.77 3079 3243 62643 11993 100.0 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 88 63.00 3089 3262 63340 12017 100.0 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 88 63.23 3098 3282 64044 12040 100.0 1.159 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 88 63.46 3107 3301 64755 12064 100.0 1.154 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 89 63.69 3116 3321 65474 12087 100.0 1.148 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5 89 63.92 3126 3341 66200 12110 100.0 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 89 64.15 3135 3361 66933 12133 100.0 1.137 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 88 63.00 3177 3452 75378 11676 100.0 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 88 63.00 2955 2985 51189 12513 100.0 1.272


IMR4831

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 154, Hornady SP 2830
Useable Case Capaci: 74.217 grain H2O = 4.819 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.365% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.7 93 60.70 2926 2928 55824 11335 100.0 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 93 60.93 2936 2947 56434 11357 100.0 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 93 61.16 2945 2966 57051 11379 100.0 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 94 61.39 2955 2985 57674 11401 100.0 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 94 61.62 2964 3004 58303 11423 100.0 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 94 61.85 2973 3023 58939 11445 100.0 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
-01.5 95 62.08 2983 3042 59582 11466 100.0 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 95 62.31 2992 3061 60231 11488 100.0 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 95 62.54 3001 3080 60886 11509 100.0 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 96 62.77 3010 3099 61549 11531 100.0 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 63.00 3020 3118 62218 11552 100.0 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 97 63.23 3029 3137 62894 11573 100.0 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 97 63.46 3038 3156 63578 11595 100.0 1.179 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 97 63.69 3047 3175 64268 11616 100.0 1.173 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5 98 63.92 3057 3195 64965 11636 100.0 1.168 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 98 64.15 3066 3214 65670 11657 100.0 1.162 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 63.00 3111 3310 73227 11194 100.0 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 63.00 2881 2838 51113 11985 99.5 1.300


N204

Cartridge : 7 mm WSM
Bullet : .284, 154, Hornady SP 2830
Useable Case Capaci: 74.217 grain H2O = 4.819 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Norma 204

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.354% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.5 89 62.70 2964 3004 56424 12254 99.1 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 89 62.93 2974 3025 57044 12288 99.2 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
-02.8 89 63.16 2984 3045 57670 12321 99.3 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
-02.5 90 63.39 2995 3066 58303 12353 99.3 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 90 63.62 3005 3087 58943 12385 99.4 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 90 63.85 3015 3108 59591 12416 99.4 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 91 64.08 3025 3129 60245 12446 99.5 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 91 64.31 3035 3150 60906 12476 99.6 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 91 64.54 3045 3171 61575 12506 99.6 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 92 64.77 3056 3193 62251 12534 99.7 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 65.00 3066 3214 62934 12562 99.7 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 92 65.23 3076 3235 63625 12590 99.7 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 93 65.46 3086 3256 64324 12617 99.8 1.150 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 93 65.69 3096 3278 65030 12643 99.8 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 93 65.92 3106 3299 65744 12668 99.8 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 94 66.15 3116 3320 66466 12693 99.9 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 65.00 3182 3462 73929 12166 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 65.00 2900 2876 52052 12462 95.8 1.265

 

[SJB358]

Hope the data assists you and doesn't muddy the waters too awfully much more.

And welcome aboard!

 

[lowmileage]

Hope the data assists you and doesn't muddy the waters too awfully much more.

And welcome aboard!

Thanks much, I will see how that data corresponds to what I've come up with.

 

[SJB358]

Hope the data assists you and doesn't muddy the waters too awfully much more.

And welcome aboard!

Thanks much, I will see how that data corresponds to what I've come up with.

I haven't been loading forever, but with a chronograph attached to my rifle and with book data I haven't ever really been able to match what the book says, most of the time it is way low in my guns. Not a bad thing and entirely safe but still, it is hard to interpret what is going on until you put the speedometer on the gun. I do like book data to give me an idea what may be a good combo but depending on them, and I have a bunch of them, is pretty tough and usually they let me down enough in the speed department I load slowly upwards to get book speeds.

 

[lowmileage]

Hope the data assists you and doesn't muddy the waters too awfully much more.

And welcome aboard!

Thanks much, I will see how that data corresponds to what I've come up with.

I haven't been loading forever, but with a chronograph attached to my rifle and with book data I haven't ever really been able to match what the book says, most of the time it is way low in my guns. Not a bad thing and entirely safe but still, it is hard to interpret what is going on until you put the speedometer on the gun. I do like book data to give me an idea what may be a good combo but depending on them, and I have a bunch of them, is pretty tough and usually they let me down enough in the speed department I load slowly upwards to get book speeds.

Thanks for the reply. I do have a Chrony from the early 1990's and have used it. I've not used it so much for readings but to give me "an idea" of where I'm at. I don't know how accurate it is and while I may not totally believe the readings, I think I'm in the ballpark. For instance, it gives me 3000 fps out of my .300 WM with the 200 grain Partition bullet and 3200 fps with the 180 grain Partition and XX of IMR 4831. Now I realize that is .300 Weatherby ballistics, I do have a 26" barrel on my Browning A Bolt so maybe it's not too far off. I don't see any pressure signs but I do get (IMO) a heck of a wallop after firing at the range but nothing perceptable firing in hunting situations. I'm curious where this 7mm WSM will go. I only bought it because it was a great deal and I always wanted a 7mm. I bought it new at Sports Authority, a sporting goods store in my area which is now defunct probably because one of their decisions was eliminating guns and ammo. It's one of the last New Haven guns. I'll let you all know my results over the next couple of weeks. Shoot straight.

 

[SJB358]

Sounds good! I love the little 7 WSM. Awesome cartridge and usually very easy to shoot.

 

[lowmileage]

Sounds good! I love the little 7 WSM. Awesome cartridge and usually very easy to shoot.

ALOT less recoil than the 300 Win Mag. If I had to do it all over again, I'd get the 7mm Rem Mag and call it a day.

 

[Dwh7271]

I haven't been loading forever, but with a chronograph attached to my rifle and with book data I haven't ever really been able to match what the book says, most of the time it is way low in my guns. Not a bad thing and entirely safe but still, it is hard to interpret what is going on until you put the speedometer on the gun. I do like book data to give me an idea what may be a good combo but depending on them, and I have a bunch of them, is pretty tough and usually they let me down enough in the speed department I load slowly upwards to get book speeds.

Great advice there!