The survival of our industry!?!

[300WSM]

I was talking with a friend the other day at his business (not guns) and the gun topic came up.

This is a normal Joe Lunch Box type of guy. He loves to deer hunt. Likes to small game hunt. When the political talks came up his attitude was "well it won't bother me, they aren't touching the deer rifles."
He is a nice guy as I said, but his thinking on this matter is selfishly ignorant. The problem is this guy isn't in the minority with this thinking. People abroad are sounding off on this horseshit just like the Joe Lunch Box above. This type of thinking is what will lead to the demise of our industry.

I politely engaged in a good conversation with him and had him understanding that he may not care about the " bad guns" but a lot of people do. A lot of people care about those bad guns who also support his only hunting style of guns and ammo. It all works hand in hand.

So I typed this up because we can't just have the thought of "doesn't affect my guns" mindset. You may not share a love for the assault type weapons but it needs to be treated as one entity...just the industry.

It can't be divided into different parts such as assault AND hunting/sporting....because when people do this we will be doomed in this business as whole.

Guns of all sizes, colors, shapes and ability should all fall under one...just the industry.

I've been trying to do a little more to combat this garbage and I'm sure each one of you can as well. Maybe its just telling friends, neighbors...maybe its donations to a bigger organization...whatever the case we need to join together and be unified instead of separating into different classes so to speak...we can and NEED to be stronger than we ever have.

If we don't changes may occur and regardless the level of changes one change is one too many.

 

[DrMike]

Make no mistake, the gun banners have no love for any gun and will not be content until they have banned all guns. If we do not stand firm against them, they will ensure the gutting of the Constitution in short order.

 

[Polaris]

Ask your friend how he'd like paying $100 per box of 30-06 imported from Norma or Lapua as that will be all he could get after massive gun banning took place. The big ammo and gun companies here would simply close shop or start producing something else.

I think we're relatively safe at the national level for now. Make sure to contact your state legislators, especially if you live in a rural district with a democrat state rep or senator. Don't forget about lefty friends with Libertarian social tendencies and union dem voters who hunt or shoot. Frame the 2a issue in terms of Liberty to them. Their voices will carry more weight with Democrat lawmakers. We need all the allies we can get. One of my former co-workers is practically a socialist on economic issues but he's currently mad as a hornet at his state representative for proposing a NY style bill here in MN. He's been to the capitol all week getting in her face and telling her he didn't send her to St Paul to take away his guns. He was active in her campaign from the nomination stage up so I know his voice strikes a little fear into her. Get on social networks. You'll find friends in surprising places.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

My dad started to say the same thing then I reminded him that if you "give an inch, they will take a mile". I then mentioned that some of the talk would limit some of the rifles he owns. His mind switched really quick after our little talk. We need to stick together.

 

[CMBTshooter]

My brother and my dad are the same way, not that they're big hunters, but they don't really care. I was expressing my frustrations to my brother and he told me to run for office or become a sheriff.

Some people aren't getting the message.

 

[PJGunner]

They say a soft answer turneth away wrath. I dunno. Lately I've taken to wearing my hat with NRA on it in big letters. Every once in a while some anti will up and confront me about how the NRA wants to see people killed and all the other garbage. I let them spew for a while and then quietly ask, just what do you really know about the Second Amendment? Some actually get a deer in the headlights look. :lol: I quietly explain about the Militia Act of 1792 and what it meant, work down the Title 10 of the US Code and inform them of the Supreme Court in Miller V US 1939. Some frankly don't give a dan, ban 'em all anyway but some actually listen. If they're wiling to give me an E-mail address, I offer to send them sources of my info so they can see and judge for themselves. Probably half the people I've talked to have said, I really didn't know that."
Usually what I send is something I wrote up at the time of the Jim Zumbo flap. For some reason I stored it on my computer and it has turned out to be quite handy. I've posted it before and I'll post it again. I've even sent it to my commie Congressman and my Senators.
Here it is. use it as you see fit.

OK, lets discuss the 2nd Amendment. Good idea. It is my carefully considered opinion that the KEY WORD is MILITIA.

1. The Militia Act of 1792. One year after the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution, Congress passed a law defining the militia. The Militia Act of 1792 declared that all free male citizens between the ages of 18 and 44 were to be members of the militia. Furthermore, every citizen was to be armed. The act stated:
"Every citizen...[shall] provide himself with a good musket, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints...."

The Militia Act of 1792 made no provision for any type of select militia such as the National Guard.

U.S. Senate Subcommittee Report (1982) "In the Militia Act of 1792, the second Congress defined 'militia of the United States' to include almost every free adult male in the United States. These persons were obligated BY LAW (emphasis mine) to possess a [military style] firearm and a minimum supply of ammunition and military equipmemnt....There can be little doubt from this that when the Congress and the people spoke of the a 'militia,' they had reference to the traditional concept of the entire populace capable of bearing arms, and not to any formal group such as what is today called the national Guard."

Current Federal Law: 10 U.S.C. Sec. 311. "The militia of the Untied States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and...under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States.....

Supreme Court: U.S. v. Miller 1939 In this case, the Court stated that, "The Militia comprised of all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...[and that] when called for service, these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves AND OF THE KIND IN COMMON USE AT THE TIME. (emphasis mine)
(BTW, Miller lost in court because he did not show up. It was never taken into account that his no show was because he had passed away.)

More on Title 10 of the U.S. Code

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 302, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;
and

(2) The unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or of the Naval Militia.

Now it took me all of about ten minutes to find all that information. Just go to the Gun Owners of America's website and look for their firearms fact sheet. There's 24 pages of good information there.

I plan on making copies of the above and sending each of my representatives their own personal copy. Feel free to do the same. Maybe, if they get flooded with as many letters with the above as Zumbo's sponsers did on his major foot in mouth problem, the idiots just might get a message. Leave our guns alone.
Paul B.

 

[300WSM]

I think we're relatively safe at the national level for now. Make sure to contact your state legislators, especially if you live in a rural district with a democrat state rep or senator. Don't forget about lefty friends with Libertarian social tendencies and union dem voters who hunt or shoot. Frame the 2a issue in terms of Liberty to them. Their voices will carry more weight with Democrat lawmakers. We need all the allies we can get. One of my former co-workers is practically a socialist on economic issues but he's currently mad as a hornet at his state representative for proposing a NY style bill here in MN. He's been to the capitol all week getting in her face and telling her he didn't send her to St Paul to take away his guns. He was active in her campaign from the nomination stage up so I know his voice strikes a little fear into her. Get on social networks. You'll find friends in surprising places.

This is what I'm referring to. I' m with you on this thinking but I do actually think it is more of wishful thinking......Right now nothing can be taken for granted even in the slightest. We can't be accepting or assuming of things.
Maybe on a national level we will be ok......but let's make SURE they leave us alone.

 

[Polaris]

Agreed. I didn't mean to sound complacent. In MN right now I'm concentrating my efforts at the state level. That's where the immediate threat is here. My congresswoman is Michelle Bachman. I know where she stands. My Senators are a lost cause. I'm not throwing good time after bad. Anybody in NE MN should definately get after Nolan though. He's an old time union labor Iron Ranger in a district with LOTS of hunters and people who also own some of those evil assault rifles and definately don't want to give them up who generally vote Democrat on economic issues but did vote out Oberstar on anti-big government grounds.

 

[onesonek]

Good going Paul! I hoped your efforts turn at least a few around to reality, common sense, and understanding of the truth.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Obama has shown in the past that he will attack any issue from an oblique and unexpected angle to get the results that he wants. He acts like most piqued homosexual men when they do not get their way. They then will try to accomplish their end by any means and the end justifies the means in all cases. We can expect him to come at us from odd angles and perspectives because all he cares about is winning at any cost and the ways and means are not important to him in the least. He has no moral turpitude and therefore has no bounds on his behavior.

 

[HomerOz]

G'Day Fella's,

300 WSM, I agree your mate is just thinking about his own present situation!
The unfortunate thing about this is, if Borat O'Bongo has a win, it will be just The Thin End Of THE WEDGE!!!

As an aside, I hear that FNH/Browning is relocating the Winchester firearms that are currently manufactured in the US, off to Portugal!!!

Doh!
Homer

 

[Oldtrader3]

There is this persistant rumor that Browning is moving Winchester manfacturing to portugal. I have seached everywhere and can not find a sliver of evidence to support this. Plus, if it was me, I would only move the 101 shotgun line to portugal and maybe the Miroku rifle product lines, not the Model 70 rifles. That is the only thing that makes sense. The rifle plant is brand new and was a major investement. Moving it would be to admit failure and I don't see that happening

 

[300WSM]

Winchester won't survive if they have anything other than a shotgun made there.

Model 70 and the name Winchester is just U.S.A.

Moreover the FN sniper rifles have picked up a lot of momentum in the Sniper rifle category for agencies abroad. Those rifles are Winchester Model 70's.

Browning can have guns made anywhere and they will still sell about the same amount they always have.

 

[Kodiak]

It rained all day; always a good day to shop for a new rifle. First stop was a small gun-shop; father/son operation. Lots of ARs for them (20 or more) all new this week. Some used bolt guns starting to show-up, with hunting season over and tax-time is approaching.

Second stop was at a shop that has been open for 35-40 years; it's closed now! Owner said ATF made their usually 1/4ly visit and found him in violation. He did not expand the conversation. What a shame, very nice guy to deal with.

 

[SJB358]

It rained all day; always a good day to shop for a new rifle. First stop was a small gun-shop; father/son operation. Lots of ARs for them (20 or more) all new this week. Some used bolt guns starting to show-up, with hunting season over and tax-time is approaching.

Second stop was at a shop that has been open for 35-40 years; it's closed now! Owner said ATF made their usually 1/4ly visit and found him in violation. He did not expand the conversation. What a shame, very nice guy to deal with.

Dang, that stinks Jim.. Sorry to hear about the shop!

What kinda rifle are you looking for?

 

[fwood]

Well they are about to turn Colorado into an eastern suburb of California. I left CA in 1998 where I was born and raised, in the central valley, in some of the finest bird hunting anywhere in the world. Now I only return for weddings and funerals, and Colorado is about to be unfit for free people. They will no longer deserve my tax dollars, it is time to go. I am so frustrated it seems that we are powerless to stop the progressive erosion of our rights. I wonder what would happen if it was proposed that we limit speech about minority rights, it is just one form of speech we don’t really need it? It is a 30 round magazine you don’t really need that ? One is as important as the other and if they can take one then they can take the other.

 

[SJB358]

Well said Fwood!

 

[Oldtrader3]

Sorry to hear about the shop. It is usually some paperwork clitch that they make a Federal Case out of. A store here got caught and it took nearly (5) years to get their license back.

 

[300WSM]

Sorry to hear about the shop. It is usually some paperwork clitch that they make a Federal Case out of. A store here got caught and it took nearly (5) years to get their license back.

All he needs to do his hire a lawyer and create a brand new ffl albeit with a different name of the business in some sort, but that is all.

A shop near here was as crooked as a lightning bolt....hundreds of guns made their way to places they shouldn't have...and guess what...shut down.............

All to be re-opened in a different technical name. Same money...same people.

To elaborate on that a little more.....
It was the owner's son who was not logging the guns in ... A BIG NO NO...and was selling them off the books. Again a BIG NO NO.

They got in massive trouble over that, and had to close. They re-opened months later with the same people and money....different name though.

 

[Oldtrader3]

The western states got all the dead-heads from Washington DC looking for ranchettes to retire or some lobbyists and politicians with their ill gotten gains from politics looking for big property chunks. Once they got it they started throwing their weight around and fundamentally changed the west forever. Problem is that they have run normal people out of much of the west. Now the rural west is idealogically aligned with Washington DC which is a shame for those of us who came here to be free of the east!

Bellingham Washington now sounds more like Bizerkely, California than like the independent west.