Traditions Long Distance Rifle???

[Guest]

Hello all,
Saw a couple of these and thought it might be fun.
Do you see an advantage or disadvantage to the 30" barrel? Seems to me with that length you could get most of the energy and accuracy out of a muzzleloader?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Guest]

Hmmm.
Well.....guess I better buy it and publish a test. :lol:

 

[DrMike]

Sounds like a most sensible move. :grin:

 

[Guest]

Thank you sir!

 

[ajvigs]

Traditions makes good stuff. I have one of their muzzeloaders, a LD model as well. It isnt of the newer ones, but at the time was the best one they offered. If I were going to purchase another muzzleloader, the one you mentioned is the one I would get.

 

[Guest]

Thanks AV.
I have one ordered now. Let you know how they shoot.

 

[JD338]

A 30" tube is rather long. My longest kill is 160 yds with
a M700 ML 24" barrel and a .451" 260 gr PT. Worked just fine.

JD338

 

[Guest]

Thanks JD.
Looked long on the sample they had.
Figured I'm tall with a pretty good reach, might fit ok?

 

[onlymuzzleloaders]

all my muzzyies have a long barrel, the longer the better

 

[ajvigs]

all my muzzyies have a long barrel, the longer the better

Can you explain why a longer barrel is better then a short barrel in a muzzleloader? Always been curious.

 

[SJB358]

Can you explain why a longer barrel is better then a short barrel in a muzzleloader? Always been curious.

Typically, longer tubes will get more speed, but I would bet the reason for the old traditional barrels were the longer sighting radius for better aiming.

 

[truck driver]

Black powder only came in two grain sizes back in the day, FG and priming powder for the frizzen pans on flint locks. The long barrel was to get full powder burn. Load your short barrel modern muzzle loaders up with 100grs of Fg, FFG and FFFG go out and shoot the loads over fresh and look at all the unburnt powder laying on top. You'll have less with FFFG than With FG but still noticeable. That's how back in the day you would find your maximum load. :mrgreen:

 

[tddeangelo]

Long barrels on the old flintlock long rifles were not to burn MORE powder, they were to develop adequate velocity with LESS powder. It was an attempt to economize shooting, as was the reduction in bore size. Compared to a short, large bored jaeger, an American Longrifle could develop enough speed with enough power to kill hooved critters without over-usage of lead or powder, both of which were not commodities that could be wasted.

 

[FOTIS]

Black powder is NOT the same as smokeless. With black there comes a point where you can add all you want and it just will not burn anymore. So the longer barrels help in aiming. That's all.

 

[tddeangelo]

From http://www.americanlongrifles.com/ameri ... -story.htm:

No technological development occurs in a vacuum, and the American longrifle as a technological as well as an artistic development was no exception. It is generally accepted that the American longrifle evolved from the Jaeger rifle brought to the colonies by German gunsmiths in the early 1700’s and most certainly imported in some quantity along with English arms up until the American Revolution. The Jaeger was a short, stocky, usually large caliber, flintlock rifle designed for hunting by the well to do in the fields and forests of Europe. At one time, some thought that rifling and a patched ball were innovations unique to the American longrifle. They weren’t. These things were known to European gunsmiths for at least two centuries before the American longrifle and were incorporated into the Jaeger. Some also have the impression that the Jaeger was heavy and hard to handle. They were not. From personal experience, I know that Jaegers were surprisingly light and easy to handle. In fact, I would much prefer to carry a Jaeger in the woods than a typical longrifle.

That begs the question, why were changes made? Well, the standard answer has been something along the lines that the American longhunter needed an economical, accurate, and long range gun to put food on the table, take skins for cash, and protect their families from Indian raiders. The Jaeger rifle was accurate but it was not necessarily a long range gun or economical in terms of lead. It has been thought that in order to accommodate the needs of the longhunter, the early gunsmiths started to elongate the barrel and reduce the caliber of their rifles. These two design changes did three basic things; increase accuracy and range, and decrease the amount of lead used for bullets. It is easy to see how a longer barrel could increase accuracy for long range shots, but the added length also allowed for the effective use of larger powder loads to support those long range shots. The more powder you put down the barrel, the more time and therefore more barrel length you need for the powder to fully combust. The potential to use higher powder loads and the higher muzzle velocity that that produces also supports the use of smaller balls. A smaller ball with a fully combusted higher powder load can have the same impact energy as a larger ball with a smaller charge. The higher muzzle velocity will also give you a flatter ballistic trajectory and longer range. Lastly, the smaller ball size means less lead to buy and carry and less powder for small game at short distances. All in all, the American longhunter got economy along with the ability to make long range shots and take down large game if needed. At least, this is the standard answer that you will glean from some of the earlier research.

The author does go into other theories, however the one I snipped here tends to be most agreed upon in talking with current day gunmakers and reading on the topic.

 

[tddeangelo]

And in about 14 months, I'll be able to discuss first hand experience on a 45" barreled flintlock....

 

[JD338]

And in about 14 months, I'll be able to discuss first hand experience on a 45" barreled flintlock....

You will be able to reach out and goose 'em. :mrgreen:

JD338

 

[truck driver]

When I was building muzzle loaders this one was the last one I built in around 1980.
The barrel is 36 inches long and started life as a 48 inch Douglas XX premium grade barrel.
I taped the barrel to the stock and checked for balance, the full 48" tube was muzzle heavy and didn't swing or point well. I all ready knew that Southern Mountain rifle barrels were anywhere from 28" to approximately 38" in length from what I had read and learned from the Smiths in Williamsburg Va. who are employed by the Smithsonian Institute to build rifles to colonial periods using the same methods as were incorporated to build rifles used in colonial times. Their suggestions to me was to cut the barrel gradually til I found the correct length that balanced for me and that is what I did for all my customers. I found that 36" balanced perfect in my hands so that's the length I settled on for me.
I found my accuracy load to be around 75grs of ffg and my deer hunting load to be 120grs of ffg.
The hunting load was found by laying a white sheet out in front of the bench rest and starting with 100grs of powder and increasing it by 5grs until I found unburnt powder on the sheet and then would back it off by a grain till I found full powder burn. And this is what I would tell my customers was the proper powder charges for their rifles.
Yes you can fill a barrel full with black powder and set it off as long as you DON'T PUT A PATCH AND BALL ON TOP AND SEAT IT :!: You will create a pipe bomb if you do.
I would proof test the breech plug in the barrels by strapping them them down on a truck tire after loading the barrel with 200grs of fffg and a patched ball using a length of cannon fuse to ignite the powder charge. If it stayed together with this it was good to go.
Most of the rifles I built where done in the old school way with everything being made and fitted by hand with the exception of the barrel and that was too much like work to make one by hand. and only the extremely rich could afford one if I did.
The picture doesn't do justice by the rifle but if you look close you can see the fine detail to period duplication. You will also notice that it looks like a miniature Hawken which was styled after the Southern Mountain rifle only everything beefed up.
This rifle is a joy to shoot and carry.
Sorry for the long post but thought you would like to know about it.

 

[tddeangelo]

That is a very nice rifle!

We definitely need to get a chance to chat sometime, being so close together. When my Martin rifle is done, you can check it out. The man does phenomenal work.

 

[truck driver]

That is a very nice rifle!

We definitely need to get a chance to chat sometime, being so close together. When my Martin rifle is done, you can check it out. The man does phenomenal work.

Maybe one day we could meet at Cabelas or somewhere closer and have a long chat.