Varget in 45/70 loads?

Guy Miner

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
17,746
5,824
I've been loading the 350 gr Hornady RNSP bullet over IMR 3031 with good accuracy. I like the 350 gr bullets moving at about 2,000 fps, or a little more.

Noticed on the Hodgdon reloading site, for 45/70 lever guns, that Varget produces about the same velocity, with considerably less pressure!

I also remember being favorably impressed by Varget in the 45/70 10 - 12 years ago when I loaded just a few cases to give it a go, but I may not have recorded any info, 'cause I sure can't find it.

Thoughts or experiences using Varget with the 45/70?

I like the idea of producing good velocity, with a lot lower CUP figure.

Hodgdon indicates max load info, with the 350 gr RNSP Hornady bullet:

60.0 Varget, 2013 fps, 29,500 CUP

60.0 3031, 2135 fps, 37,100 CUP

Have always liked that Hodgdon publishes pressure data in their load manual.

Thanks, Guy
 
A little too slow in my experience

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .458, 350, Hornady RN 4502
Useable Case Capaci: 59.374 grain H2O = 3.855 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 102 54.00 1790 2491 31029 4551 78.0 1.305
-09.0 103 54.60 1811 2550 32045 4625 78.7 1.287
-08.0 104 55.20 1833 2610 33097 4699 79.4 1.271
-07.0 105 55.80 1854 2671 34189 4773 80.0 1.254
-06.0 107 56.40 1875 2733 35321 4846 80.7 1.237
-05.0 108 57.00 1897 2797 36497 4919 81.3 1.221
-04.0 109 57.60 1919 2861 37719 4992 81.9 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 110 58.20 1940 2926 38986 5064 82.6 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 111 58.80 1962 2992 40305 5135 83.2 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 112 59.40 1984 3060 41674 5205 83.8 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 113 60.00 2006 3128 43100 5275 84.4 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 114 60.60 2028 3198 44584 5344 85.0 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 116 61.20 2051 3268 46128 5412 85.6 1.103 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 117 61.80 2073 3340 47736 5479 86.2 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 118 62.40 2096 3413 49413 5545 86.7 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 119 63.00 2118 3487 51161 5610 87.3 1.056 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 113 60.00 2136 3544 51176 5610 91.9 1.052 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 113 60.00 1856 2678 35797 4759 74.7 1.238
 
All under 44000 psi

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .458, 350, Hornady RN 4502
Useable Case Capaci: 59.374 grain H2O = 3.855 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 43888 psi, or 302 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

97 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 101.5 56.7 3.68 2134 99.7 43888 5490 1.106 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 96.7 54.3 3.52 2117 97.8 43888 5599 1.106 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-10x 102.6 53.0 3.43 2085 97.8 43888 5409 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748 104.5 61.5 3.99 2080 89.6 43888 5722 1.112 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 10 98.8 57.8 3.74 2080 92.8 43888 5575 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 98.8 57.9 3.75 2079 92.8 43888 5567 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2219 98.6 55.7 3.61 2078 94.2 43888 5508 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H322 104.9 55.7 3.61 2078 94.2 43888 5508 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 200 98.8 52.9 3.43 2078 98.5 43888 5335 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H335 99.2 59.2 3.84 2077 92.7 43888 5594 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S321 104.4 61.5 3.98 2070 89.4 43888 5641 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2207 96.1 49.2 3.19 2068 99.9 43888 5007 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2460 103.6 61.0 3.95 2061 90.6 43888 5501 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D073.5 103.9 61.0 3.95 2061 90.6 43888 5501 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 40 102.3 57.1 3.70 2057 91.3 43888 5437 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N530 104.7 57.6 3.73 2056 89.1 43888 5491 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-12 104.3 58.2 3.77 2055 94.1 43888 5347 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 105.0 55.9 3.62 2053 97.8 39086 5544 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 105.0 55.0 3.56 2051 96.6 42443 5298 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 101.5 59.6 3.86 2046 90.4 43888 5367 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 507 105.0 60.0 3.89 2044 88.4 42724 5507 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 99.6 48.9 3.17 2042 98.5 43888 4942 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant AR-Comp 105.0 55.6 3.60 2041 97.6 38376 5518 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 98.5 49.2 3.19 2036 100.0 43888 4633 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon CFE223 105.0 64.0 4.15 2036 84.9 42376 5653 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 94.6 50.1 3.25 2033 98.2 43888 5000 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N130 104.2 53.3 3.45 2032 97.5 43888 5026 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2230 102.3 60.6 3.93 2031 87.8 43888 5301 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 36 89.3 47.6 3.08 2027 99.4 43888 4809 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N125 92.3 46.9 3.04 2025 100.0 43888 4595 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2210 98.2 55.5 3.60 2021 90.4 43888 5210 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Kazan Sunar 308W 98.9 53.0 3.43 2020 97.1 43888 4971 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2 105.0 62.7 4.06 2018 86.4 39723 5634 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 94.9 52.7 3.42 2016 91.8 43888 5110 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Wild Boar 105.0 61.4 3.98 2013 84.9 41368 5444 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 105.0 57.5 3.72 2013 88.1 41709 5303 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 86.5 49.4 3.20 2013 95.6 43888 4962 1.136 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot X-Terminator 102.6 59.9 3.88 2013 86.3 43888 5235 1.137 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI BM2 95.7 55.8 3.61 2012 90.3 43888 5142 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4227 89.6 44.9 2.91 2011 99.8 43888 4606 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 5744 81.0 42.4 2.75 2010 98.5 43888 4863 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D060 82.9 42.4 2.75 2010 98.5 43888 4863 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Benchmark 104.0 56.0 3.63 2010 90.0 43888 5137 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 80.9 44.3 2.87 2002 99.9 43888 4532 1.148 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot TAC 105.0 62.0 4.02 1999 81.7 43539 5228 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2520 105.0 60.6 3.93 1997 88.9 37237 5513 1.192
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 94.6 50.2 3.25 1994 93.5 43888 4861 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4227 88.4 44.3 2.87 1990 99.4 43888 4539 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S053 90.0 44.2 2.86 1990 100.0 43888 4340 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R901 105.0 54.6 3.54 1987 91.2 39194 5318 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 95.0 48.8 3.16 1987 93.9 43888 4778 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895 105.0 57.5 3.72 1986 85.5 38397 5402 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 105.0 57.5 3.72 1975 84.4 38394 5331 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 105.0 56.8 3.68 1973 87.1 43039 4964 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 105.0 61.8 4.01 1969 83.9 40329 5163 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 105.0 56.5 3.66 1969 90.2 36789 5308 1.203
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 105.0 57.0 3.70 1969 86.3 41302 5032 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 105.0 55.9 3.62 1958 85.9 41807 4949 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 105.0 56.2 3.64 1957 92.7 31779 5604 1.275
ReloadSwiss RS 30 83.4 40.2 2.60 1956 100.0 43888 4015 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 9 105.0 59.3 3.85 1953 83.6 38126 5213 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 105.0 56.2 3.64 1953 92.4 38733 5005 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 105.0 61.7 4.00 1951 80.6 39342 5115 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 105.0 59.2 3.84 1944 87.5 34370 5358 1.231
Vihtavuori N110 84.2 39.1 2.53 1942 100.0 43888 3861 1.161 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S265 85.9 43.2 2.80 1940 100.0 43888 4104 1.171 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 201 105.0 56.2 3.64 1935 86.1 36594 5175 1.230
IMR 3031 105.0 53.7 3.48 1930 90.4 32939 5345 1.245
PB Clermont PCL 516 105.0 61.2 3.97 1929 79.5 38116 5089 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 105.0 52.6 3.41 1928 94.1 37052 4792 1.209
ADI AR 2205 82.6 43.0 2.79 1926 100.0 43888 4017 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
 
I agree with Fotis... I've done quite a lot of work with the 45/70, and I think 4895 is about as slow as it needs.

Always had the best luck with 322 but I mostly played with the 400+ grain retina detaching loads.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Since you have Varget it doesn't hurt to try a few to see how they do. At the very least they will go bang and you'll get some practice in. It won't take too many rounds to find out if it is worth pursuing.
 
Hodgdon information with H-4198 is what I use for loading my 45-70 with 300-350 grain bullets. I’ve tried rl-7 and Varget both. The 4198 gives better velocities and consistency than all so far in my 22” barreled 1895. One thing about H-4198 though. When you start loading heavy with it.........man it kicks like a pissed off pack mule!
 
Guy Miner said:
I've been loading the 350 gr Hornady RNSP bullet over IMR 3031 with good accuracy. I like the 350 gr bullets moving at about 2,000 fps, or a little more.

Noticed on the Hodgdon reloading site, for 45/70 lever guns, that Varget produces about the same velocity, with considerably less pressure!

I also remember being favorably impressed by Varget in the 45/70 10 - 12 years ago when I loaded just a few cases to give it a go, but I may not have recorded any info, 'cause I sure can't find it.

Thoughts or experiences using Varget with the 45/70?

I like the idea of producing good velocity, with a lot lower CUP figure.

Hodgdon indicates max load info, with the 350 gr RNSP Hornady bullet:

60.0 Varget, 2013 fps, 29,500 CUP

60.0 3031, 2135 fps, 37,100 CUP

Have always liked that Hodgdon publishes pressure data in their load manual.

Thanks, Guy
Click to expand...
Been loading the 45/70 Marlin ever since the Guide Gun was introduced .
350gr Hornady RN was my first bullets with 53.0 of IMR 3031.
Then Reloader 7 @ 51.8 for a 2050 FPS in 18” Guide Gun barrel was my load for years.
About 10 years ago switched to 350gr Speer FN and the performance was even better especially bullet weight retention.
Now I have a Marlin Trapper for about 4 years . I like the shorter barrel for canoe and SBS,
I tried the Rem 400gr SP and Speer 400gr FN and some heavier Hard Cast bullets accuracy was good but the excessive recoil was brutal and went back to the 350gr weight. The Swift A Frame 350gr FN and Woodleigh 350gr RN along with Kodiak 350gr FN are excellent Prem bullets but the Speer 350gr due to design is excellent in the 45/70 Marlin at the upper end of Vel 1800 to 2000 fps acts like a bonded bullet. My current load is 48.0 of IMR 4198 since RL 7 is hard to find .
 
Last edited:
Guy Miner said:
Hodgdon indicates max load info, with the 350 gr RNSP Hornady bullet:

60.0 Varget, 2013 fps, 29,500 CUP

60.0 3031, 2135 fps, 37,100 CUP

Thanks, Guy
Click to expand...

If you ran the other powders (3031, H4198, etc) at the same velocity (2,013) you would get much lower pressure and consume less powder.
Personally, I've burned a ton of different powders in my 1895 and have found that it's really hard to beat H4198 for accuracy, velocity and consistency regardless of bullet weight. Some of the bulkier powders run out of case capacity with the heavy bullets.

H4198 seems impossible to find lately but IMR4198 is always available so I just ordered a few pounds to see how it compares with its Hodgdon cousin. I'm expecting similar results, but we'll see.
 
Charlie-NY said:
If you ran the other powders (3031, H4198, etc) at the same velocity (2,013) you would get much lower pressure and consume less powder.
Personally, I've burned a ton of different powders in my 1895 and have found that it's really hard to beat H4198 for accuracy, velocity and consistency regardless of bullet weight. Some of the bulkier powders run out of case capacity with the heavy bullets.

H4198 seems impossible to find lately but IMR4198 is always available so I just ordered a few pounds to see how it compares with its Hodgdon cousin. I'm expecting similar results, but we'll see.
Click to expand...
48.0 is the magic number with IMR 4198 with 350gr
 
Charlie-NY said:
If you ran the other powders (3031, H4198, etc) at the same velocity (2,013) you would get much lower pressure and consume less powder.
Personally, I've burned a ton of different powders in my 1895 and have found that it's really hard to beat H4198 for accuracy, velocity and consistency regardless of bullet weight. Some of the bulkier powders run out of case capacity with the heavy bullets.

H4198 seems impossible to find lately but IMR4198 is always available so I just ordered a few pounds to see how it compares with its Hodgdon cousin. I'm expecting similar results, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm listening... You're getting lower psi (how measured?) than the Varget at that velocity?

I've loaded all sorts of powders with the 45-70. The Varget data published by Hodgdon did indeed attract my attention.

Thanks!
 
I haven’t used the Varget but I’m glad to see its viable as I have about 4lbs sitting around not doing any else currently.
 
Guy Miner said:
Okay, I'm listening... You're getting lower psi (how measured?) than the Varget at that velocity?

I've loaded all sorts of powders with the 45-70. The Varget data published by Hodgdon did indeed attract my attention.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Not lower pressure than Varget, just lower than the 38K-39K that is generated at the higher velocities. I use the available pressure data to make comparisons.
 
Joec7651 said:
I took my 1895 to the range this past Sunday. 50gr of IMR4198 and 300 grain Hornady HP’s gave me a shade over 2050 fps with 3 shots touching at 100 yards. This was measured with my Magnetospeed and is a comfortable load to shoot.
Click to expand...
I’m using it as one of my deer rifles this fall. The other is a 270 Win with E-Tips or Partitions. Haven’t decided yet. There is still one thing I need to rectify with the 7mm Rem Mag I built, so it will go next year. I’m fabricating a Model 70 style trigger guard to replace the plastic one that came on it. I think it will have a more classic look.
 
Joec7651 said:
I took my 1895 to the range this past Sunday. 50gr of IMR4198 and 300 grain Hornady HP’s gave me a shade over 2050 fps with 3 shots touching at 100 yards. This was measured with my Magnetospeed and is a comfortable load to shoot.
Click to expand...
Ya, those 1895's are capable of surprising accuracy with decent ammo. Fotis has posted some superb groups as I recall.

I sure hope to put my Marlin 1895 to use this year. I've got ammo loaded with IMR 3031 and the 350 grain Hornady Round Nose. The rifle is shooting them well.

Regards, Guy
 
I agree completely Guy. Find something they like and they can shoot extremely well. one thing I absolutely love about my 1895 is that the first cold bore shot goes EXACTLY where the crosshairs are without question. All I use is Starline brass, which brings me to the load. It’s not anywhere near full house load but is nice to shoot without rattling my teeth.

Starline brass trimmed to uniform length with a Lee case trimmer, and sized half way down the case with Hornady Custom full length sizing dies. I aneal after every other firing. 50 grains IMR4198, WLR primer, Hornady 300 grain hollow point, and a medium heavy crimp with a FC die, at 2.560” OAL. It gives 2050 fps from a 22” barreled 1895, and 2090 fps from a SURPRISINGLY accurate single shot CVA Scout V2 with a 25” barrel. Bergara builds a barrel of amazing quality for this rifle. Best factory finish I’ve ever seen trough a borescope in a factory barrel. That’s no exaggeration. Both rifles shoot the same groups with this load. Which makes things easy. Here is a 3 shot group from the 1895 at 100 yards.
 

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Last edited:
Guy Miner said:
I've been loading the 350 gr Hornady RNSP bullet over IMR 3031 with good accuracy. I like the 350 gr bullets moving at about 2,000 fps, or a little more.

Noticed on the Hodgdon reloading site, for 45/70 lever guns, that Varget produces about the same velocity, with considerably less pressure!

I also remember being favorably impressed by Varget in the 45/70 10 - 12 years ago when I loaded just a few cases to give it a go, but I may not have recorded any info, 'cause I sure can't find it.

Thoughts or experiences using Varget with the 45/70?

I like the idea of producing good velocity, with a lot lower CUP figure.

Hodgdon indicates max load info, with the 350 gr RNSP Hornady bullet:

60.0 Varget, 2013 fps, 29,500 CUP

60.0 3031, 2135 fps, 37,100 CUP

Have always liked that Hodgdon publishes pressure data in their load manual.

Thanks, Guy
Click to expand...
Always used 350gr in 45-70
Reloader 7 / 4198 and 3031 IMR good powders too. The Speer 350gr the best cheap good bullet that shoots and retains like a bonded bullet. Yes 2000 FPS in Guide Gun Length in my trapper 1800 fps
48.0 of IMR 4198 or 51.8 of RL 7
 
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