What if I can't get a Nosler to shoot?

[Guy Miner]

So... Literally after decades of shooting Noslers - I seem to have found a rifle that doesn't particularly like them. My .300 WSM Model 70 shoots them okay, but only okay. It's got a fairly heavy barrel with a target crown, a laminated stock, and a nice light Jewel trigger. With 210 gr Bergers it has produced 1.5" groups at 300 yards, from prone/bipod. It's a shooter.

With Noslers: 165, 180, or 200 gr Ballistic Tips, Accubonds or Partitions... It's just a one MOA rifle at best. That's a 3" group at 300 yards. Not good enough for a heavy rifle, intended for precision/long range shooting.

Why? I don't know.

I really want it to shoot 200 gr AccuBond or Partition bullets as well as it shoots the Berger VLD, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Why not? Beats me.

Now what? I trust Nosler on big game. The Bergers will work fine on deer, but what about elk and bear? That's why I want to use the Accubonds. Must be the shape of the ogive. Maybe.

Frustrated Guy

 

[gerry]

I know how you feel my 264 WM just didn't want to shoot the 140 gr Partitions sometimes it happens. In your case maybe you could try the 180 gr Swift Scirocco it's a tough high b.c. bullet.

 

[efw]

Then try a Hornady... you know that mule deer guy on "the other forum" calls them "poor man's premiums".

I ain't particularly poor, but they've always worked wonders for me...

190 gr Interlock BTSP?

 

[DrMike]

Guy,

I have found that ABs simply do not give me the same accuracy as other bullets in my 300 WSM. I have tried multiple weights without success. When I see great accuracy with other bullets, I lean toward them. The same is true in my 7mm RM. In this instance, however, I've found that 175 grain PTs shoot quite well. Go figure! Consequently, there is nothing wrong with a 175 grain PT launched at high velocity, so that is what I use. Fortunately, when a rifle just doesn't like a good bullet, there are other options today. I'm prepared to use those options when necessary in order to ensure that when I have opportunity to pull the trigger on a particular game animal, I can be reasonably confident that the bullet will perform as required.

 

[sask boy]

That is interesting I have not run into that problem. I have shot Nosler for many years and always found them accurate.
I load for 3 different 7mm mags and all shoot well with either the PTs or ABs.
The only rifle that I have had trouble getting accurate was my little 308 BLR but I think that was my fault by not using the proper grain of bullet for it
Mind you I have not loaded for lots and lots of different calibers.
Soon though I will be loading for a 35 Whelen :mrgreen: bought bullets and a set of dies for it this past week, could not get my old dies back Nosler brass in 35 Whelen is been back ordered for over a month,

Blessings,
Dan

 

[HeathSexton]

I have limited experience with the Accubonds but none of my rifles care for them either.

 

[onesonek]

So... Literally after decades of shooting Noslers - I seem to have found a rifle that doesn't particularly like them. My .300 WSM Model 70 shoots them okay, but only okay. It's got a fairly heavy barrel with a target crown, a laminated stock, and a nice light Jewel trigger. With 210 gr Bergers it has produced 1.5" groups at 300 yards, from prone/bipod. It's a shooter.

With Noslers: 165, 180, or 200 gr Ballistic Tips, Accubonds or Partitions... It's just a one MOA rifle at best. That's a 3" group at 300 yards. Not good enough for a heavy rifle, intended for precision/long range shooting.

Is that a shot 3" group at 300yds, or a 100 yd. 1 moa group shot, then trnaslated to 300 yds? Can make a difference, as sometimes some bullets just need a little more range to settle. If it was a 300 yd group, I refer to what Dr. Mike said

Why? I don't know.

I really want it to shoot 200 gr AccuBond or Partition bullets as well as it shoots the Berger VLD, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Why not? Beats me.

I would hazard a guess you tried all the techniques with changing powder speeds and seating depth? Otherwise, back to Dr. Mike's reply again.

Now what? I trust Nosler on big game. The Bergers will work fine on deer, but what about elk and bear? That's why I want to use the Accubonds. Must be the shape of the ogive. Maybe.


I would suspect harmonics, but it is intriguing to why neither the AB's or NP's will shoot as you want. I would have suspected one or the other but not both.
Beyond that, I have no help or explantion, if you tried everthing in the bag of tricks, as in powder, primers, and seating depth.

I know it sounds almost rediculous,,,but if I'm set on a Nosler for an intended use, and the rifle don't shoot it,,,,I have sold or traded it :lol: Thats how much faith I have in Nosler's. But then again, I haven't only had but one rifle be that fickle. I don't mind a challenge and will go to the extreme to find a load, but if it won't do what I want, it's gone! Just that simple for me.
Otherwise you are left again to Dr. Mike's resolution, with switching to another.

Frustrated Guy

 

[gerry]

Onesonek is right trading it for another gun is an option too if it isn't up to the level of accuracy you want.

A new barrel with a slightly faster twist for those long AccuBond bullets is an option too.

 

[JD338]

Guy,

Have you played with the seating depth of each bullet tested?

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

Typically, and in this case, I test for accuracy at 300 yards. With this .300 WSM, it's been 1.5" at 300 for the Bergers and roughly 3" at 300 for the Noslers. Normally a 3" group at 300 yards would be fine with me, for a hunting rifle. But this thing is intended to be my precision/long range rifle, and I've got to have better than MOA accuracy out of it.

I'll scratch my head, have another cup of coffee and try again. Don't recall ever running into a rifle that just didn't seem to like Noslers before. It sure likes the 210 gr Berger VLD's, no doubt about that.

I've got a box of 200 gr Accubonds loaded for it, and they shoot well enough for most hunting. If I haul it out again this season, I'll likely use those.

Thought I had that 200 gr bullet shooting somewhat better last year, and I carried the rifle for mule deer then, but I can't seem to get that same level of accuracy from it anymore. Ah well, it's good to have a project...

Guy

 

[onesonek]

As a side note, I also have had a little more difficulty with AB's over BT's ( not that I have played with them a lot as of yet),,,can't really explain that either. But then, I usually don't hunt/shoot over a particular loads PBR and most often use PT's. I still demand my accuracy goals however.
I did come into a few hundred .30 cal 200 gr. AB's I intend to play with in the 06 when I get time however.

 

[Guy Miner]

"A new barrel with a slightly faster twist for those long AccuBond bullets is an option too."

Very tempting... It may be that the rifle is due for a new barrel soon anyway. I'd be fine with that...

 

[R Flowers]

Guy, you are stressing over nothing. I would much rather shoot big game with a Nosler that shoots into 3 inches at 300 yards than ANY Berger that shoots into little bitty groups.

I do not care what they say, Berger's are NOT game bullets. Yeah, I know, lots of high paid jack ass people on TV are shooting game with them at long range. WHOOPEE! This whole thing of shooting at extreme ranges is out of control. And these TV shots are set up and unrealistic.

Just like Sierra says that their Matchkings are NOT hunting bullets, if Berger had the guts they would say the same thing about their bullets.

I saw an antelope shot last August with a 300 WSM using a factory loaded 185 grain Berger bullet and that guy had lots of hamburger, not much else.

I would just shoot Nosler's and be happy. Or maybe you should try Barnes, or Hornady, or Sierra.
You know I bet a Sierra Game King at long range would perform just great. My own personal 300 WSM shoots the Sierra 180 Pro Hunter into little bitty groups and I would not hesitate for a moment to use them on game at any reasonable range.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Guy, if the 210 Berger's do the trick for long range target accuracy in that .300 WSM, I would use them. It sounds as though the 200 grain Accubonds will work just great for hunting use with 3" groups at 300 yards. Usually, I get better accuracy with the Partitions than with Accubonds but not consistantly in each rifle I use.

They probably do not shoot to the same POI but how often are you going to hunt with this rifle? I have used the 7mm 160 gr AB's and the .338 250 gr AB's in my rifles and both shot about MOA or a little less at 200 yards. From what I understand, this is good accuracy for the AB's typically.

 

[WYcoyote]

I think I would go ahead and use the Bergers too. I have made far more kills with Noslers than anything else, it is hard not to use them. But a 210 gr. .30 cal. projectile is fairly formidable in most any configuration, and the hunting VLDs really have been getting pretty good feedback on the forums. They just use a different theory than we are used to. If you can steer them around the big shoulder bones and into the vitals, from my research they will result in a very quick kill.
I tried them on my deer last year to see what all the hubbub was about and was impressed.
(25-06 with the 115 Hunting VLD)
Heck, try them out and let us know, that's how we learn.
I am thinking about trying them in my .300 WM. I'm having a little trouble with ABs also.

 

[Guy Miner]

Yeah, probably all worked up about nothing. One MOA is plenty good for hunting anyway. The 200 AccuBond is a heavy duty hunting bullet, and I respect it tremendously. Perhaps I've overlooked some way to get it shooting better. Back to the loading bench!

I have shot a few mule deer with the smaller .257" 115 gr Berger VLD, with excellent results in each case.

 

[SJB358]

Man, I am kinda in the same boat as most of the others. I have had nothing but excellent luck getting the PT's to shoot in about everything. I am running the 160gr AB in the 7WSM right now, but once I am done shooting them up, I am pretty sure I am going to shift back to 160 or 175gr PT's.

I would like to run 200gr PT's in the next 300WSM I get. I just like the 200's running along at around 2900 or so. They work really well, and penetrate really far. I had good luck with the Sierra 200gr GK's in my 300WM, so I wouldn't be too worried about them either. Looking forward to how you make out Guy. Have you tried many different powders with the 300? Scotty

 

[onesonek]

Guy, you are stressing over nothing. I would much rather shoot big game with a Nosler that shoots into 3 inches at 300 yards than ANY Berger that shoots into little bitty groups.

I do not care what they say, Berger's are NOT game bullets. Yeah, I know, lots of high paid jack ass people on TV are shooting game with them at long range. WHOOPEE! This whole thing of shooting at extreme ranges is out of control. And these TV shots are set up and unrealistic.

Just like Sierra says that their Matchkings are NOT hunting bullets, if Berger had the guts they would say the same thing about their bullets.

I saw an antelope shot last August with a 300 WSM using a factory loaded 185 grain Berger bullet and that guy had lots of hamburger, not much else.

I would just shoot Nosler's and be happy. Or maybe you should try Barnes, or Hornady, or Sierra.
You know I bet a Sierra Game King at long range would perform just great. My own personal 300 WSM shoots the Sierra 180 Pro Hunter into little bitty groups and I would not hesitate for a moment to use them on game at any reasonable range.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I also am not going to disparage anybody with what follows, to whom does things their way however. But for me, hunting is about the hunt itself, not so much the harvest.
Now I can hit 12" gongs, on avg. days, all day long at 500 yds with most rifles I shoot. The issue I have shooting at game at that range and or longer, is game breathes and moves. A 1/2 step by the animal will take shot placement out of the kill zone. I sudden gust or lull in the wind, will do the same. While a bullet at near 3000 or better fps, still has near .5 second flight time,,,,,,a lot of time for things to go wrong in my mind.

For a target rig, 1 moa is not anywhere near good enough for me. But for a hunting rifle, I am good to go with 1 moa. That is more than good enough for how I would sight PBR in at roughly a 1/2 to 1/3 the intended animals kill zone. Generally I go a 1/3 or sometimes less, this builds in some margin for error. If absolutely necessary and conditions were right, I can see taking longer. But not any longer, than I can still hold on the hair. In the avg., that adds a 100 yds. to the PBR, give or take a little. I know big game has been taken at much longer ranges, but it's just not my thing to do so. I often wonder when I hear of such, how many wounding shots there are also.
Not picking on Guy or anyone else for that matter, but said rifle for me, is a 400-425 yd. Elk rig. Anything beyond that, I would do what I could to get closer. Or I would pass, and consider myself beat by the animals instincts. I don't figure to win every hunt I go on,,,,the best part of the hunt, is being there!
I just prefer the challenge of getting close as I can, rather than the challenge of the shot.

 

[elkeater2]

Guy,
Maybe you already did this, but make sure you check out that 'target crown' for final finish. My son's 7wizzum Coyote needed a touch-up. A couple grooves had a discernible edge the others did not. And it shot 1 moa anyway.

Hope you get it figured out...
EE2

 

[Elkman]

frustrated guy

As you know I have been dealing with problems such as yours for over a year now. When I switched from H-1000 to RL-19 my consistency and group size problems were solved. Perhaps another powder choice might help!
I also agree that 3 inch groups at that distance are nothing to be concerned about. In my opinion a 3" PT beats a 2" Berger any day.