280 Remington 6.5 Staball load data for 140 BT & Accubonds

[rod]

I have a couple of pounds in 6.5 Staball , Need info or starting point for a SLICK 1985 280 Mountain rifle , will be using 120, 140 Ballistic tips or Accubonds

tried Varget 1st load with 120's was .650 inch 3 shot group , have some RL-19 coming , but would love to try the Staball

 

[DrMike]

Sounds as if you have a rifle that can deliver the goods. The 280 is one of my favourite cartridges. I've now owned three rifles chambered in this cartridge, and all delivered fine accuracy, accounting for quite a few head of game. Here is a QL projection for the cartridge.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler BalTip 28140
Useable Case Capaci: 60.673 grain H2O = 3.939 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   87    52.56   2618    2131   41647  10110     98.9    1.251
-09.0   88    53.14   2647    2177   43027  10201     99.2    1.232
-08.0   89    53.73   2675    2224   44453  10286     99.4    1.213
-07.0   90    54.31   2703    2271   45929  10367     99.6    1.195
-06.0   91    54.90   2731    2318   47460  10443     99.7    1.177
-05.0   92    55.48   2759    2366   49044  10513     99.8    1.159
-04.0   93    56.06   2787    2414   50685  10578     99.9    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   94    56.65   2814    2462   52383  10637    100.0    1.125  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   95    57.23   2842    2511   54141  10691    100.0    1.108  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   96    57.82   2869    2559   55968  10741    100.0    1.092  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    58.40   2897    2609   57861  10790    100.0    1.076  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   98    58.98   2924    2658   59822  10838    100.0    1.060  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    59.57   2951    2708   61858  10885    100.0    1.044  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    60.15   2978    2758   63971  10932    100.0    1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    60.74   3005    2808   66164  10977    100.0    1.014  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    61.32   3032    2858   68442  11021    100.0    0.999  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    58.40   3001    2800   69313  10428    100.0    1.001  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    58.40   2740    2335   47491  10963     97.8    1.173

 

[DrMike]

The 140 grain AB won't differ much from the 140 grain BT.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.112 grain H2O = 3.903 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   88    52.20   2613    2123   41532  10029     98.9    1.252
-09.0   89    52.78   2642    2169   42909  10120     99.1    1.233
-08.0   89    53.36   2670    2216   44333  10205     99.3    1.215
-07.0   90    53.94   2698    2263   45808  10286     99.5    1.196
-06.0   91    54.52   2726    2310   47336  10362     99.7    1.178
-05.0   92    55.10   2754    2358   48918  10433     99.8    1.161
-04.0   93    55.68   2782    2405   50556  10498     99.9    1.143  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   94    56.26   2810    2454   52253  10558    100.0    1.126  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   95    56.84   2837    2502   54012  10612    100.0    1.110  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   96    57.42   2865    2551   55834  10662    100.0    1.093  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    58.00   2892    2600   57727  10710    100.0    1.077  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   98    58.58   2919    2650   59688  10757    100.0    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    59.16   2947    2699   61724  10803    100.0    1.046  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    59.74   2974    2749   63836  10849    100.0    1.030  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    60.32   3001    2799   66029  10893    100.0    1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    60.90   3028    2850   68308  10937    100.0    1.000  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    58.00   2997    2792   69177  10347    100.0    1.003  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    58.00   2735    2326   47386  10871     97.7    1.174

 

[rod]

Sounds as if you have a rifle that can deliver the goods. The 280 is one of my favourite cartridges. I've now owned three rifles chambered in this cartridge, and all delivered fine accuracy, accounting for quite a few head of game. Here is a QL projection for the cartridge.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler BalTip 28140
Useable Case Capaci: 60.673 grain H2O = 3.939 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   87    52.56   2618    2131   41647  10110     98.9    1.251
-09.0   88    53.14   2647    2177   43027  10201     99.2    1.232
-08.0   89    53.73   2675    2224   44453  10286     99.4    1.213
-07.0   90    54.31   2703    2271   45929  10367     99.6    1.195
-06.0   91    54.90   2731    2318   47460  10443     99.7    1.177
-05.0   92    55.48   2759    2366   49044  10513     99.8    1.159
-04.0   93    56.06   2787    2414   50685  10578     99.9    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   94    56.65   2814    2462   52383  10637    100.0    1.125  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   95    57.23   2842    2511   54141  10691    100.0    1.108  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   96    57.82   2869    2559   55968  10741    100.0    1.092  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    58.40   2897    2609   57861  10790    100.0    1.076  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   98    58.98   2924    2658   59822  10838    100.0    1.060  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    59.57   2951    2708   61858  10885    100.0    1.044  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    60.15   2978    2758   63971  10932    100.0    1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    60.74   3005    2808   66164  10977    100.0    1.014  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    61.32   3032    2858   68442  11021    100.0    0.999  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    58.40   3001    2800   69313  10428    100.0    1.001  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    58.40   2740    2335   47491  10963     97.8    1.173

THANK YOU

 

[rod]

The 140 grain AB won't differ much from the 140 grain BT.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.112 grain H2O = 3.903 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   88    52.20   2613    2123   41532  10029     98.9    1.252
-09.0   89    52.78   2642    2169   42909  10120     99.1    1.233
-08.0   89    53.36   2670    2216   44333  10205     99.3    1.215
-07.0   90    53.94   2698    2263   45808  10286     99.5    1.196
-06.0   91    54.52   2726    2310   47336  10362     99.7    1.178
-05.0   92    55.10   2754    2358   48918  10433     99.8    1.161
-04.0   93    55.68   2782    2405   50556  10498     99.9    1.143  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   94    56.26   2810    2454   52253  10558    100.0    1.126  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   95    56.84   2837    2502   54012  10612    100.0    1.110  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   96    57.42   2865    2551   55834  10662    100.0    1.093  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    58.00   2892    2600   57727  10710    100.0    1.077  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   98    58.58   2919    2650   59688  10757    100.0    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    59.16   2947    2699   61724  10803    100.0    1.046  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    59.74   2974    2749   63836  10849    100.0    1.030  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    60.32   3001    2799   66029  10893    100.0    1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    60.90   3028    2850   68308  10937    100.0    1.000  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    58.00   2997    2792   69177  10347    100.0    1.003  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    58.00   2735    2326   47386  10871     97.7    1.174

i have 3 different primers ,, CCi BR, federal match and federal magnum match , what you suggest with the Staball??

 

[hunter24605]

Seems like you have a shooter on your hamds. Another fan of the 280,, here,. I've probably worked more with it than any other rifle I own. I know it gets a rep as "pixie dust," and some other negative connotations, but Superformance powder has served me very well in my 280 with about any 140 gr bullet.

 

[rod]

Seems like you have a shooter on your hamds. Another fan of the 280,, here,. I've probably worked more with it than any other rifle I own. I know it gets a rep as "pixie dust," and some other negative connotations, but Superformance powder has served me very well in my 280 with about any 140 gr bullet.

I need to show you this one 95%+ rifle , ran the Teslong in it and if its been fired much it wasn't much at all zero firecracking , looks new , like I said the 1st load I tried was .650 3 shot , H4350 was around 1 inch .

trying to find some RL-19 , I have RL-22 but that's a tad slow.

it's an easy shooting rifle as well , very little kick

 

[DrMike]

i have 3 different primers ,, CCi BR, federal match and federal magnum match , what you suggest with the Staball??

The rule of thumb for choosing a primer is to choose the "coolest" (the least brisance) you can use and still get complete ignition. For sure, you won't need the magnum primer to get complete ignition. Both the CCI BR and the Federal Match primers will give you good ignition. I've used both in various loads in my own 280s. I'd probably opt to use the primer that was over-represented in my inventory. Sounds like a great problem to have. You should do well with working up a load. Drop back at least five percent from max and work up, watching for pressure signs.

 

[DrMike]

Actually, RL22 will work. I do agree with you that RL19 would give better performance in so far as velocity is concerned. I have used RL22 in the past with 140 grain pills, and the loads have taken both whitetail and mule deer.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.112 grain H2O = 3.903 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-22 *C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    54.27   2666    2209   40457  11625     91.0    1.267
-09.0   98    54.87   2699    2265   41892  11791     91.7    1.246
-08.0   99    55.48   2733    2322   43382  11955     92.3    1.225
-07.0  100    56.08   2767    2380   44931  12114     92.9    1.205
-06.0  101    56.68   2801    2439   46541  12270     93.5    1.185
-05.0  102    57.29   2835    2498   48217  12421     94.1    1.166
-04.0  103    57.89   2869    2558   49962  12567     94.6    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  104    58.49   2903    2619   51774  12709     95.2    1.127  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    59.09   2937    2681   53663  12846     95.7    1.109  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  107    59.70   2971    2744   55629  12977     96.2    1.090  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    60.30   3006    2808   57678  13103     96.6    1.073  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    60.90   3040    2872   59814  13223     97.0    1.055  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    61.51   3074    2938   62040  13338     97.4    1.037  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    62.11   3109    3004   64365  13446     97.8    1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    62.71   3143    3071   66789  13548     98.1    1.004  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    63.32   3177    3139   69321  13643     98.5    0.987  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    60.30   3178    3139   70940  13060     99.9    0.984  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    60.30   2780    2403   46174  12364     88.5    1.186

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.112 grain H2O = 3.903 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-19 *C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   94    51.84   2650    2183   41620  11059     91.5    1.250
-09.0   95    52.42   2681    2234   43003  11211     92.1    1.230
-08.0   96    52.99   2712    2286   44434  11360     92.7    1.212
-07.0   97    53.57   2743    2339   45916  11506     93.2    1.193
-06.0   98    54.14   2774    2393   47450  11649     93.7    1.175
-05.0   99    54.72   2805    2447   49039  11789     94.2    1.157
-04.0  100    55.30   2837    2501   50684  11925     94.7    1.139  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  101    55.87   2868    2557   52389  12057     95.2    1.122  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  102    56.45   2899    2613   54156  12186     95.6    1.105  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  103    57.02   2930    2670   55987  12311     96.1    1.088  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    57.60   2962    2727   57885  12431     96.5    1.072  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  105    58.18   2993    2785   59854  12548     96.9    1.055  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  106    58.75   3024    2844   61899  12659     97.2    1.039  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  107    59.33   3056    2903   64017  12766     97.6    1.024  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  108    59.90   3087    2963   66219  12869     97.9    1.009  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  109    60.48   3119    3023   68505  12967     98.2    0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    57.60   3115    3016   69475  12448     99.8    0.991  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    57.60   2764    2374   47262  11790     89.2    1.174

 

[JD338]

I have a couple of pounds in 6.5 Staball , Need info or starting point for a SLICK 1985 280 Mountain rifle , will be using 120, 140 Ballistic tips or Accubonds

tried Varget 1st load with 120's was .650 inch 3 shot group , have some RL-19 coming , but would love to try the Staball

I had great results in the 280 Rem with both the 249 gr BT and PT bullets using RL19 and IMR4831. Max loads got me 2900+ fps and sub MOA accuracy.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

I'm afraid I can't help you much regarding 10 and 140 gr. bullets. I prefer somewhat heavier bullets and most of my hunting lately has beed for elk. Cicumstances beyond my control have prevented me from doing and hunting for the last three years and no end to the drought in sight. However, I have done some work with the 160 gr. Speer Grand Slam with IMR 7828 and getting some nice velocity readings. Accuracy from my rifle with 7828 was only fair at best, but it might work out in your rifle. What did work out though was Winchester's Magnum Rifle powder, AKA, WMR.I've tried it in the .270 Win., .280 Rem., 30-06 and .300 Win. Mag. The only cartridge it was a total flop was the 30-06. It performed like a champ in the others mentioned. In the .280 though, I not only got the speed but the accuracy to go with it. I went up to 57.8 gr. WMR, 160 gr. Speer Grand Slam (old two core verssion) ffor a velocity of 2907 FPS. Groups ranged from .50" to .80" Not too shabby for a potential elk load.
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

Funnily enough, WMR was my "go to" powder for years when loading 140 grain pills in my 280. I was sorry to see Winchester cease making that powder and the sister, WXR. Both of these powders worked exceptionally well in each of my 280s.

 

[rod]

Actually, RL22 will work. I do agree with you that RL19 would give better performance in so far as velocity is concerned. I have used RL22 in the past with 140 grain pills, and the loads have taken both whitetail and mule deer.

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.112 grain H2O = 3.903 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-22 *C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    54.27   2666    2209   40457  11625     91.0    1.267
-09.0   98    54.87   2699    2265   41892  11791     91.7    1.246
-08.0   99    55.48   2733    2322   43382  11955     92.3    1.225
-07.0  100    56.08   2767    2380   44931  12114     92.9    1.205
-06.0  101    56.68   2801    2439   46541  12270     93.5    1.185
-05.0  102    57.29   2835    2498   48217  12421     94.1    1.166
-04.0  103    57.89   2869    2558   49962  12567     94.6    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  104    58.49   2903    2619   51774  12709     95.2    1.127  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    59.09   2937    2681   53663  12846     95.7    1.109  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  107    59.70   2971    2744   55629  12977     96.2    1.090  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    60.30   3006    2808   57678  13103     96.6    1.073  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    60.90   3040    2872   59814  13223     97.0    1.055  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    61.51   3074    2938   62040  13338     97.4    1.037  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    62.11   3109    3004   64365  13446     97.8    1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    62.71   3143    3071   66789  13548     98.1    1.004  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    63.32   3177    3139   69321  13643     98.5    0.987  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    60.30   3178    3139   70940  13060     99.9    0.984  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    60.30   2780    2403   46174  12364     88.5    1.186

1st old 7MM mag I had ,,, I read a story on RL-22 and the 7mag, it may have been written by Lane Simpson ,, and it said something like this ,,, RL-22 will make a poor shooting rifle shoot okay some times,, a fair shooting rifle shoot good,,, and good shooting rifle shoot GREAT ,,,, and a great shooting rifle will be AMAZING ,


I have 2 7MM mags , both Remingtons ,,, one shot .380 - 3 shot group and the other a .226 - 3 shot group with the 1st load I tried using RL-22 and a 140 grain Nosler balistic tips .

I never doubt RL-22 or RL-19 in that class rifle

my 6.5-284 shot damn well with it in the boiler room .

 

[6mm Remington]

In my 280 Remington (700 MTN Rifle) I used to have I used IMR4350 for 2940 fps in the 22" barrel. Believe my load was 54.0 grs. with the 140 grain Partition. 280 is a fine cartridge.

 

[AFG270]

I too have used IMR4350 and RL17 with 140gr Ballistic Tips in my Legendary Arms 280 with a 24" barrel and have excellent accuracy. 280 is an excellent cartridge!

Be careful with StaBall 6.5 in your 280, I had pressure signs, heavy bolt lift and extractor marks with 140gr Ballistic tips and only 54.5grs of powder. I also tried StaBall in my 280 with 140gr Hammer bullets and once fired Nosler brass and got a heavy bolt lift then a ruptured case at only 53,0 grs. I then switched to IMR4350 with no pressure signs and excellent velocity and accuracy. I have had excellent results with StaBall in my 22-250 and 243 with Hammer bullets.