Velocity and accuracy

[Aberhan]

Hello, it seems most handloaders enjoy pushing the envelope when it comes to velocity, always risking more pressure for the sake of a few more feet per second. I confess, I have been guilty of this myself. The reason I no longer do (aside from the obvious safety concerns) is that I have rarely if ever found the hottest loads to be the most accurate. The rare exception might be the 6.5 Creedmoor which seems to work well with the fastest velocities pushing the 140 grain bullets. I am interested in anyone else’s honest assessment of this topic.

 

[TackDriver284]

Nice shooting. I have a a question or two.
Are you handloading these loads? If so, groups are great, but do you also anneal your own brass? If these loads are fired a few times to several times, brass hardening on the necks can occur. It's a possibility those flyers are from brass hardening if you did not anneal. Softening those necks will help a lot and eliminate flyers. I see three in a cloverleaf which is excellent shooting.
With my 6.5 Creedmoor, I see two nodes with 140 Hybrids, one is slow and one is fast. Both nodes do shoot very well for me, the slow node for my rifle is 2730 fps and the faster node is at 2790 fps. I have pushed the envelope past 42.2 grains and accuracy seemed to diminish. I went about a grain over max, watched pressures while working up and input data in Quickload as well.
H4350 is the powder of choice for the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[SJB358]

Just me, but I use a powder that fills the case and provides adequate pressure and consistency to reduce my ES/SD numbers while paying attention to neck tension. 50-100FPS won’t ever be the end of the day but I’d like the cartridge to perform to their potential.

 

[Firebird24]

Accuracy over velocity every time. BUT I will try multiple powders and brass if I can to get the most satisfying result. For example, my 7mm-08 shoots almost 100 fps faster with nosler brass than with R-P but much more accurate with r-p. When I load less powder in the nosler brass it also loses accuracy. I’m getting the most from each brass and powder but one is inherently more accurate and that’s the one I use even tho it is slower by a little bit. Handloading lets me make these complicated life decisions!

 

[Firebird24]

My pre 64 Winchester .30-06 shoots very well over max with the 165 gr bullets I like and that’s where I shoot it. It also prefers solid base lead tipped bullets-which makes sense based on what it was made to shoot at its time of manufacture-

 

[Blkram]

I always aim for accuracy potential first. If I can achieve accuracy and velocity, within safe pressures in my rifle, I will happily take it.After all, 1.5 MOA is accurate enough for 95% of the hunting/shooting most of us average shooters/hunters participate in. While I will accept this level in my lever actions, I do prefer 1 MOA or better accuracy in my bolt actions. And when I can achieve 1/2 MOA or better, I am extremely happy! (But most of the time, as a hunter first, those rifles shoot better than I can from most field positions...but it does inspire confidence that I can can competently place the bullet accurately in the vitals of my chosen game animals, for clean, quick kills here the retained energy is sufficient for that particular class of animal - deer vs moose vs elk/bison.)
Some rifle/ammo combos like higher velocity, whereas others do better with slightly lower velocities. Only experimenting with your rifle will tell you which your rifle prefers.

This is always a rabbit hole to go down, and is an interesting part of this past time...and then again, sometimes we get too deep into the weeds by overthinking it! Sometimes we must remember the KISS principle and just have fun shooting responsibly!

Honestly though, +/-100 fps isn't going to make any real world difference to the average shooter/hunter. And no animals is going to realize that it was shot with a bullet going that little bit faster, as long as the retained velocity and energy is sufficient for a quick, clean kill.

If you are a competition shooter, and going to extreme distances, then you will see some differences in retained velocity, drop, and drift at long range. But can you realize the difference with the increased recoil? Or with your chosen scope's reticle? If trying to regain sight picture in your scope for the shot impacting the target (or around the target) at the chosen distance? (If you do not have a spotter to make those calls for you.)

That being said...have fun, and best of luck in your quest!

 

[highoctane]

I never had a chronograph down through the years to check my velocity due to the fact that the areas I hunt do allow for shots from county line to county line, maybe 150 yds at most, so having a speed demon was not something that I needed, I was happy as a pig in sunshine with my reloads. Every deer that I shot would be DRT or I would see them fall.

Enter the chronograph stage left this year, after finding that some of my reloads were a little short on speed I let that Chrono cause me some heartburn by chasing that extra speed that I thought I needed. Pardon the flowerdly language, but piss on that! For me, I've found that trying to find that little bit of extra speed is not worth it but isn't it great that we all have the choice as to what we want out of our rifles!

Brass lasts longer, lower pressure is easier on our rifles, recoil is mitigated to a lower level, and as one would expect traditional bullets, cup and core type, perform better when slowed down just a bit as well

Good luck

 

[Guy Miner]

Love accuracy! And I've often found it as my loads approach or reach the published book maximum. I've seen this with the 7mm Rem Mag and also with my 308 Winchester among others. The 308 max or near-max accuracy was when I was shooting a lot of 600 yard prone matches. It was nice to get those bullets moving right on out, especially if we were also looking for 1,000 yard loads. Accuracy and velocity were both important.

I watch the SD & ES numbers tighten as the velocity goes up with the increased powder charge.

Now this pleases me because I'm getting a lot of velocity and a lot of accuracy... Choose a suitable bullet and place it well, then go tag the game.

However if I run into an accuracy node down well below max and don't need top performance from a load, then sure, I'll happily load lighter. Guess I kinda take accuracy where I find it, high or low.

Regards, Guy

 

[PJGunner]

"The reason I no longer do (aside from the obvious safety concerns) is that I have rarely if ever found the hottest loads to be the most accurate. "

I'm afraid that isn't always the case, no pun intended. Personally, I prefer having an accurate load going as fast, safely as the rifle and cartridge will allow. Four examples, three rifles chambered to 7x57 runnng the 150 gr. Nosler Partition to 2880 FPS using RL15. Accuracy in two rifles has been sub MOA. The best the Ruger #1 does is 1.25 to 1.50". Gonna see if I can better that but I'm good with it for whatever hunting I may do..
The fourth rifle is a custom Mauser in .280 Rem. Like the 7x57s mentioned, factory ammo has been kept low for one reason after another. The .280 is another example. It was probably taken using a 26" barre. Not many .280's with that barrel length unless you have a Ruger #1.
he 7MM Rem mag supposedly does2950 FPS, again most likely with a 26" barrel. My .280 Rem. load does 2910 FPS. Accuracy is sub-MOA and cases last more than ten loadings. I have been tempted to send those off to be tested but if they're OK, I see no reason for the existence of the 7 MM Rem. Mag. Tes rifl
e for the .280 isa custom built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser made in Germany by DWM.

"For me, I've found that trying to find that little bit of extra speed is not worth it but isn't it great that we all have the choice as to what we want out of our rifles!"

While I do agree with us having a choice some cartridges that just beg to be "improved". The 7x57 is probably my very pet peeve. Factory loads with the 175 gr. round nose are advertised as doing 2440 FPS or in the range. I chronographed some I had on hand from 1973 with some made in the late 1990s that I got for the brass. Neither load came anywhere near advertised speed with the average from both samples never reaching 2300 fps and frankly did not even come close. FWIW, that 1973 ammo back in "73" cost me a deer because it did not perform as it should. I didn't find it until the following day when I saw the birds. That deer was standing broadside to me, didn't know I was there and was one of the easiest shots I'd ever had up to that time. No chrony back in 1973 but a sectioned bullet showed a jacket way too thick for the speed so in essence, I might as well been shooting a 30-30 with an FMJ bullet. They said they have to keep pressure down low because of all the old Mausers chambered to the round. (M1893, M1895 and a few 1896( I say horse pucky. All those gun made in Germany should be OK pepping up a load for one. Old Remington rolling blocks, no way. Many have headspace problems or bad chambers.
You can use a chronograph while working up a load Pressure usually rises in a linear fashion and when the veoicity starts to look a bit weird, then it may behtime to stop or use lighter charges or back off a grain. Using that method it's best that you graph the data until you have a good picture of what's going on. The nice part is you have a sort of picture of what's happening in your rifle and can make an informed decision on not only velocity but the accuracy of the load.
PJ

 

[phil]

Full pressure/higher load density is where I find my best loads.
Again and again and again.

I do enjoy higher velocity, but use long barrels and generous case sizes rather than excessive pressure.

 

[JN270]

I prioritize accuracy over speed. I do value speed more now than I used to. I find the best balance of both.

 

[Wolfshead]

I’m in the accuracy first camp.
However I’ve begun to use monolithic bullets, and muzzle velocity is more important now as it was with lead bullets.
I’ve found personally, that my most accurate loads are also at the higher end of the load range.
I shoot mostly my 308, with a 20” barrel, and I’m shooting light for caliber 130 grain ttsx, using Ramshot TAC powder, Starline brass, and CCI #200 large rifle primers.
Last week I went to the range and shot a 10 shot group at 111 yds.
Muzzle velocity was average - 3210.1, SD was 7.6, and ES was 20.7.
That was with a load of 50.4 grains which is less than a full grain from max.
I had one called flyer which I knew was bad as I shot it because I wasn’t settled as the shot went off. Just knew it was not a good shot.
Here is the group. I know the rifle is capable of more, but its shooter may not be
50.4 grain group is on the right.
The group on the left is 50.7, and you can see not as good as the 50.4 group on the right.

 

[salmonchaser]

I’m only pushing the envelope with two cartridges, the 257 Roberts and the 275 Rigby, (7x57). Both are very old cartridges loaded to modest pressure. Both are responding well to boosting the pressure envelope a bit over 60 k. Both are Ruger #1 rifles with increadibly strong actions. Both have allowed me to push the next level. 3100+ with a 100gr bullet is better achieved with a 25/06, 2950+ with a 150gr AccuBond, next step up is a 280 AI or one of the plethora of new 7mm whisbang cartridges.
My 06 shoots right at 2950 with a 150; the 300 H&H likes 2950 with a 180; 338 likes 2950 with a 250 and the 375 seems to like 2500 and no way do I try to push it too much faster.

 

[Ralt71]

Hello, it seems most handloaders enjoy pushing the envelope when it comes to velocity, always risking more pressure for the sake of a few more feet per second. I confess, I have been guilty of this myself. The reason I no longer do (aside from the obvious safety concerns) is that I have rarely if ever found the hottest loads to be the most accurate. The rare exception might be the 6.5 Creedmoor which seems to work well with the fastest velocities pushing the 140 grain bullets. I am interested in anyone else’s honest assessment of this topic.

I have noticed the same. If I back off a little from the fastest possible speed within the safe spec of the load I get a tighter group in just about every caliber. I do not and have not owned a 6.5 creedmor and can't speak on that one.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I try to get both accuracy and speed but if the accuracy is less than top end load well, that works for me. Achieving both is something you just keep working towards with different calibers and their rifles.