105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

[DrMike]

Those are certainly some accurate loads, Jake. You are to be commended not only for working up the loads, but for carefully evaluating them from the bench. Undoubtedly, such accuracy gives you considerable confidence in the field.

 

[jmad_81]

Those are certainly some accurate loads, Jake. You are to be commended not only for working up the loads, but for carefully evaluating them from the bench. Undoubtedly, such accuracy gives you considerable confidence in the field.

Thank you very much Mike. I bought this rifle with the intention of using a less spendy rifle to learn how to shoot longer ranges. And man, have I learned a lot. My best group at 1000 yards is still with this rifle. It was 9". Funny thing about it though, is my longest dial-a-dog is only 465 yard. But I busted one last week at 523 using my mil dots and the 55gr LFBT. Rifles that shoot like this every time out, are by far the most fun to own.

First dial-a-dog.

 

[DrMike]

I do like the term "dial-a-dog!" That is pretty neat. :grin:

 

[Rmitch223]

I Load the 105 A Max in my 243, and use a COAL of 2.780". If I go longer I get into the lands. Your rifle may be different. I also use the 210 match primer. I use H1000 for powder, but 4350 should work well also.

The bullet you have selected is very accurate. I have several groups out of my factory Savage 243 that are in the .2" range. I also have several 600 yard groups under two inches. It is a cheap bullet, that is a ton of fun.

A good way to check and see if you are loading your bullets into the lands is to take a fired case and press one side of the case against yoru bench. This will flatten the mouth just a bit. Take a bullet and press it into the mouth of the case, the dent will make for a tight fit, but still allow the bullet to move. Push it in just far enough to get it to hold. Take a black marker and cover the rest of the bullet sticking out of the case. Now take that shell and put it in you chamber and close the bolt. It will close hard, as the lands are pushing the bullet into the case. When you open the bolt the bullet might stick in the throat. If it does you can knock it out with a cleaning rod. DO NOT JAM THE ROD IN HARD! It should come out easy. If the bullet did get stuck and you get it out, it will have marks in the black showing the lands, and how far the bullet slid into the case. If the bullet came out with the case, make sure that the lands didn't pull the bullet back out of the case. You will be able to tell if that happened by looking at the bullet by the flat spot in the mouth. If there is a scratch mark above the mouth, push the bulet back in until the scratch matches up with the mouth of the case.

That will get you really close to knowing where your lands are. I'm willing to bet that the book 2.710 is a ways off the lands. I try not to load into the lands. Mostly because I don't want to get a bullet stuck in the lands and go to eject a shell after not shooting at something and dump powder all over my gun.

As far as being over book max, I would not reccomend it for a beginner. Once you learn more about your rifle and how it acts when you start to get to hot, then you can play around. Remember every rifle is different, and reloading manuals are just a guide. If you are getting an mark on the head of your brass, your to hot. If you are getting sticky bolt lift, you are to hot. If your primers start to seat really easy on your next loading, your to hot.

Best of luck with your rifle. You picked a very accurate bullet.

What are you using for optics?

I really appreciate this advice.
For optics I'm currently using a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42, but I'm going to upgrade very shortly to a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50.

The COAL has been something I haven't completely wrapped my head around yet. I understand that it can be unsafe to seat them to far away from the lands and too close as well. That's why I put so much thought into making sure I do it correctly. The loads I previously shot loaded at 2.800" functioned and shot extremely well, but I don't know if they are jamming into the lands or not. I plan to use the technique you mentioned to measure the COAL as soon as I pick up some dial calipers. Another thing that kinda confuses me is that SAAMI spec for COAL is 2.710" and I'm shooting very accurately loaded at 2.800". I'm just concerned this is too long I guess. I will know when I get some dial calipers I suppose, I'm just confused about it right now and probably making it more difficult than it really is.

 

[jmad_81]

It's only to long if you are jamming them into the lands and getting presure issues. Chamber a loaded round, then take it back out and look for scratches on the bullet. If you are contacting the lands, it will scratch your bullet, and maybe even push it back into your case a bit more.

 

[FOTIS]

That is some great shooting Jake!

 

[jmad_81]

Gotta love a Savage :wink:

 

[FOTIS]

And I do... A lot!

 

[Rmitch223]

I check my OAL using jmad's method above. I used a case that would hold the bullet tightly and was still moveable by hand. barely hand seated the bullet into the case. Then I chambered it many times and closed the bolt and measured each time. 90% of the time the measurement was 2.822", some measurements came out to around 8.245" but I believe the lands may have been slightly pulling the bullet out to that measurement when I was ejecting. So with 2.822" I should be right where I need to be with a OAL of 2.800" right?

 

[jmad_81]

You should be fine with that.

 

[6mm Remington]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

My dad helped with the design, he has been a carpenter for over 25 years.
Im very happy with how it turned out. I set the counter top at 40" high so Im able to sit and stand and be comfortable. I need to find a stool for it now or some kind of chair.

Welcome to the forum and reloading. It's just so much fun and an enjoyable way to spend time. The reloading bench looks fantastic by the way. I use a stool at my bench and I was given one by a friend that has a back on it. That is the way to go as it gives you support for your back. A must have after sitting there for a few hours. :shock: Did I say we spend hours doing this. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

David

 

[Rmitch223]

I went and bought a Hornady headspace gauge and sized my brass to match the dimensions of a factory round I had lying around.

I loaded up 50 rounds ranging from 37 grains of IMR-4350 to 39 grains in .5 increments. I had one group that measured .613" with 37grains and one that measured .833 from 39 grains. I feel that I didn't really shoot my best because of being nervous about my first reloads.

Weird thing was I did have minor pressure signs with one round only at 37.5gn. bolt lift was sticky and I had a slight ejector mark on the head of the case. I worked all the way up to 39gn and never saw another pressure sign. Any idea what could have caused this? Primer not seated all the way? I'm really puzzled about it. The primer had very little cratering around the firing pin mark. I can take a pic of it and post it here later today.

Also, any suggestions of what I should load to test next range trip? I was thinking of loading 10 rounds each of these charge weights. 37, 38, 39, 39.5, & 40gn.

 

[DrMike]

I went and bought a Hornady headspace gauge and sized my brass to match the dimensions of a factory round I had lying around.

I loaded up 50 rounds ranging from 37 grains of IMR-4350 to 39 grains in .5 increments. I had one group that measured .613" with 37grains and one that measured .833 from 39 grains. I feel that I didn't really shoot my best because of being nervous about my first reloads.

Weird thing was I did have minor pressure signs with one round only at 37.5gn. bolt lift was sticky and I had a slight ejector mark on the head of the case. I worked all the way up to 39gn and never saw another pressure sign. Any idea what could have caused this? Primer not seated all the way? I'm really puzzled about it. The primer had very little cratering around the firing pin mark. I can take a pic of it and post it here later today.

Also, any suggestions of what I should load to test next range trip? I was thinking of loading 10 rounds each of these charge weights. 37, 38, 39, 39.5, & 40gn.

Were you chronographing your loads? If so, did that one particular load show aberrant velocity when compared to the other loads with which it was shot? Sometimes, a powder will give such aberrant burns. If you enjoy shooting your rifle, then, by all means load ten rounds each at the various charge weights. However, for a quick-and-dirty assessment, four rounds each will suffice. Three rounds is enough, and four will allow you to discard any aberrant results and shooter errors.

 

[Rmitch223]

I currently do not have a chronograph.

I might just load 4 each to save some powder and bullets.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

You're doing this very wisely in the fact that you think about what you're doing and what you want to do, you ask questions and you listen to sage advice.

Hard to explain an anamoly like you witnessed with that one bullet without a chrony.

The biggest benefit of using the headspace gauge is that you can adjust your dies to just barely bump back the shoulder of your brass .001-.002" when you re-size. This will decrease the amount of stretching your brass experience when fired and increase the life of your brass substantially.

I try shoot 4 round groups for load development as it deals with that called flyer while improving your statistical confidence in the load. I believe that seven shot groups give the best statistical chance of verifying a load.

 

[Rmitch223]

Here are two pics of the best groups.

First one is 39 grains, second is 37 grains. (IMR-4350)

 

[DrMike]

They are fine groups; they show a good measure of consistency in loading for you.

 

[Rmitch223]

Yeah, odd thing is the other groups were all over the place. I contribute it to mostly shooter error from being nervous about my first handloads.

CatskillCrawler - I really appreciate the compliment. The main reason for me getting into reloading was to find the most accurate load possible.

I think its odd I only got two good groups out of fifty rounds. although a friend that went with me shot about half. His best group was with 39gn and it measured 1.177".

I thought it was interesting tho that my two best groups were from both sides of the charge weight spectrum. So I'm confused of what charge weight I should load next time out.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

You're welcome.

Having two people shoot your load development groups would be something to avoid unless you know for certain that the other is a better shot off the bags than yourself. Even then I feel it skews your results. You have enough variables in the mix without introducing another.

There's nothing wrong with those two groups. There are countless methods to narrowing down your loads. I shoot the first loads using .5gr increments like you did. Sometimes I will repeat the work-up if results are fairly uniform. I then will bracket the most accurate charge weights by going up and down .3gr while repeating the original charge. Then I increase and decrease OAL in .015" increments up to .045" total if magazine allows.

I'd recommend that you get more bullets through this barrel and more repetitions through your dies before proceeding above book max. You don't have a chrony and may miss subtle signs which are more apparent when you have a chrony to back up your visual cues as to when you're reaching max pressure. If you continue to reload and get hooked, you'll have plenty of time and more experience to push the envelope safely. Try another powder and a few more bullets. Have fun with it.

 

[jmad_81]

I don't let anybody else touch my test loads. Just one more thing a guy has in the back of his mind when looking at the results.

With that being said, It sure looks like you have some good groups to start with. I would take the load that produced your smallest group and start playing with the seating depth. Normally when you have two in the same hole, and one just a little ways out a guy can bring them together with seating depth changes.

If you can find somebody with a chrony you can use, that would be worth its weight in gold.

Looks to me like you are going a great job of working your way up and being careful. It won't be to long, and you have a load nailed down and you can start playing.