165 gr. or 180 gr. partition for deer and elk?
- Thread starter CDL-06
- Start date
I suppose this is blasphemy and will get me banned from the Nosler site, but I have to respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, I like and use Nosler partitions. I don't believe the larger partitions are necessarily good deer bullets. Given the right conditions they don't reliably expand on smaller deer. Granted, I never shot a deer with either 165 or 180 partitions in my 30-06, but I have shot elk with both. I did however shoot a deer with 130 grain partitions in my 270. Yes, the deer died, but it wasn't a pretty sight and it appeared the bullets did not do the damage going through that a "softer" bullet would have done. I choose ballistic tips for deer and partitions for bigger stuff. Regards, Woody
We would never ban you....For long :grin:
This is what this forum is for. To talk about experiences and real issues with reloading and shooting. And maybe at the end of the day, I may help you, and you may open my eyes to something I didn't realize. My family has worked extremely hard to give consumers the products they need and want, and the only way we have gotten where we have gotten is by listening to constructive comments, whether good or bad.
I appreciate your honesty.
My personal experierence is that the 165 Partition for ONE bullet is the best choice for the 30-06, when it comes to deer and elk. However, that does vary when it comes to a few issues.
Where do you like to shoot your animal... In the lungs behind the front shoulder or in the shoulders.
Do you hunt in thick forests or open desert areas?
Also a HUGH factor. Does your gun shoot a 180 better or a 165gr?
The last factor is how you handle recoil. A heavier bullet is sometimes a harder recoiled round.
Hope that helps.
This is what this forum is for. To talk about experiences and real issues with reloading and shooting. And maybe at the end of the day, I may help you, and you may open my eyes to something I didn't realize. My family has worked extremely hard to give consumers the products they need and want, and the only way we have gotten where we have gotten is by listening to constructive comments, whether good or bad.
I appreciate your honesty.
My personal experierence is that the 165 Partition for ONE bullet is the best choice for the 30-06, when it comes to deer and elk. However, that does vary when it comes to a few issues.
Where do you like to shoot your animal... In the lungs behind the front shoulder or in the shoulders.
Do you hunt in thick forests or open desert areas?
Also a HUGH factor. Does your gun shoot a 180 better or a 165gr?
The last factor is how you handle recoil. A heavier bullet is sometimes a harder recoiled round.
Hope that helps.
- Thread starter
- #5
Regarding the ballistic tip:
I have been reading that the 30 cal BT is a good deer bullet if the weight used is 150 gr. or heavier and if the velocity is kept under 2700 fps and if used for broadside or quartering shots. True? Also, I've read that as the weight goes up, so does the thickness and toughness of the jacket material: 165 gr. stronger than 150 gr., 180 gr. stronger than the 165 etc. Is this true?
Tangent question: is the solid base bullet basically a ballistic tip without the plastic tip? Why choose one over the other for a hunting bullet in a std. 30 cal cartridge?
I have been reading that the 30 cal BT is a good deer bullet if the weight used is 150 gr. or heavier and if the velocity is kept under 2700 fps and if used for broadside or quartering shots. True? Also, I've read that as the weight goes up, so does the thickness and toughness of the jacket material: 165 gr. stronger than 150 gr., 180 gr. stronger than the 165 etc. Is this true?
Tangent question: is the solid base bullet basically a ballistic tip without the plastic tip? Why choose one over the other for a hunting bullet in a std. 30 cal cartridge?
- Thread starter
- #6
[>>>QUOTE: I usually reload Sierra Gamekings (150's and 180's) in >>>my '06 but I'd like to test the Partition. For starters, I would like to >>>focus on a single bullet for deer and elk. Is the 165 gr. Partition up to >>>the task or is it too light for elk? Is the 180 too much for deer?
By "too much for deer" do you mean it might kille them _TOO DEAD_ or what?
Wouldn't it be better to have "overkill" on deer, rather than the alternative "underkill" on elk? A 'quartering' shot on a big bull requires some 'ooomph'........!
Maybe Nosler's position on this question has changed over the years! I say that because I have 2 letters in my possession, from Nosler. These are "real" letters, written on paper, before email and the Internet was much used.
First letter is dated Sept 3/1987.......and Nosler says that they recommend 180 grain Partition for combo deer and elk, from a 30-06. This letter is signed by G.H Root, Customer Service.
The second letter is dated July 15/1988.......Nosler says "For deer-elk class game, we suggest the Nosler 180 grain Partition for 30-06." This letter is signed by Merwyn Webb, Product Service Administrator
OK......I followed Nosler's advice, and since 1987 I have used 180 grain Partition in my 30-06. For antelope, deer, and elk. I've been very satisfied. It killed the elk just fine, and all the deer and antelope were killed also, with no complications.
I handloaded the 180 grain Partitions for a Rem 700 with a 22 inch barrel, chrono'ed at muzzle velocity of 2779 fps.
One last detail........Nosler makes two 180 grain Partitions in .30 caliber......I used 180 grain Partition part number 16331.
Another last detail.......I've used the Nosler 180 Partition in my 30-06 on antelope, deer, and elk in Wyoming and Colorado, in widely varying terrain, conditions, and ranges.
Lee Carkenord Denver CO
[/quote]
By "too much for deer" do you mean it might kille them _TOO DEAD_ or what?
Wouldn't it be better to have "overkill" on deer, rather than the alternative "underkill" on elk? A 'quartering' shot on a big bull requires some 'ooomph'........!
Maybe Nosler's position on this question has changed over the years! I say that because I have 2 letters in my possession, from Nosler. These are "real" letters, written on paper, before email and the Internet was much used.
First letter is dated Sept 3/1987.......and Nosler says that they recommend 180 grain Partition for combo deer and elk, from a 30-06. This letter is signed by G.H Root, Customer Service.
The second letter is dated July 15/1988.......Nosler says "For deer-elk class game, we suggest the Nosler 180 grain Partition for 30-06." This letter is signed by Merwyn Webb, Product Service Administrator
OK......I followed Nosler's advice, and since 1987 I have used 180 grain Partition in my 30-06. For antelope, deer, and elk. I've been very satisfied. It killed the elk just fine, and all the deer and antelope were killed also, with no complications.
I handloaded the 180 grain Partitions for a Rem 700 with a 22 inch barrel, chrono'ed at muzzle velocity of 2779 fps.
One last detail........Nosler makes two 180 grain Partitions in .30 caliber......I used 180 grain Partition part number 16331.
Another last detail.......I've used the Nosler 180 Partition in my 30-06 on antelope, deer, and elk in Wyoming and Colorado, in widely varying terrain, conditions, and ranges.
Lee Carkenord Denver CO
[/quote]
- Thread starter
- #8
This is turning into a bit of a debate!!
Nosler's position has never changed. We view the Partition as the flagship of our business. The Ballistic Tip has turned into the #1 premium deer killin bullet in America. Either is great on deer, but some guns shoot one better than the other.
The other factor is shot placement and terrain you hunt.
Tipped bullets offer resistance to deformation in the magazine and usually a higher B.C. for a bit better long range trajectory.
Nosler's position has never changed. We view the Partition as the flagship of our business. The Ballistic Tip has turned into the #1 premium deer killin bullet in America. Either is great on deer, but some guns shoot one better than the other.
The other factor is shot placement and terrain you hunt.
Tipped bullets offer resistance to deformation in the magazine and usually a higher B.C. for a bit better long range trajectory.
I know this is an old post, but I'd like to weigh in on this one.
My load consists of 58 gr of H4350, federal primer and the 165 Partition.
I have shot mule deer from as close as 25 yards out to where I had to hold 30" above the back of the deer. (not recommended unless you practice alot) and have had nothing but complete penetration. At the long shot the deer started walking and the bullet penetrated the ham, broke the femur and exited the rib cage after taking out the left lung. It doesn't get better than that!
Partitions...gotta love em.
My load consists of 58 gr of H4350, federal primer and the 165 Partition.
I have shot mule deer from as close as 25 yards out to where I had to hold 30" above the back of the deer. (not recommended unless you practice alot) and have had nothing but complete penetration. At the long shot the deer started walking and the bullet penetrated the ham, broke the femur and exited the rib cage after taking out the left lung. It doesn't get better than that!
Partitions...gotta love em.
I have used the 180 grain partions and to a lesser extent the 165 grain ballistic tips out of my 30-06 for 20 some years. I have taken deer, elk, black bear and antalopewith the following observations:
The 180 grain partion works well in about every situation you can think of with one exception-Point Blank on elk where it doesn't penatrate as well as I would like. The 165 bullets would fare worce in that situation. I terms of flat shooting I have taken two elk way out there (beyond what I maybe should have been shooting) in both cases the bullets did an excellet job. Out of the five long range hits only one bullet was recovered and it had a text book mushroom. On deer and antalope it works great and doesn't destroy near as much meat as the 165 grain ballist tip. I personal would use the 180's, work up a good load (I use 60 grains of Re 22) and stick with it. Once you start knowing what the rifle and load will do you will find your self being sucessfull on a regular basis.
The 180 grain partion works well in about every situation you can think of with one exception-Point Blank on elk where it doesn't penatrate as well as I would like. The 165 bullets would fare worce in that situation. I terms of flat shooting I have taken two elk way out there (beyond what I maybe should have been shooting) in both cases the bullets did an excellet job. Out of the five long range hits only one bullet was recovered and it had a text book mushroom. On deer and antalope it works great and doesn't destroy near as much meat as the 165 grain ballist tip. I personal would use the 180's, work up a good load (I use 60 grains of Re 22) and stick with it. Once you start knowing what the rifle and load will do you will find your self being sucessfull on a regular basis.
Greg Nolan
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2004
- 2,143
- 18
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe the attribute that makes the Partition the benchmark bullet it has been is that it does open fairly easily at long range and at close range it uses weight loss to transfer maximum energy while still giving excellent penetration with the rear, partitioned part of the bullet. I'v got 25 years with the 180gr. Partition in 308 win. to 300 wby. and they've always expanded dependably and penetrated at least to the far side skin if not exited. I'm currently in love with the AccuBond but only because of the ballistic superiority. Now, on to the 180 vs. 165gr bullet. The 180 gives you a little more retained weight for penetration on elk so it might be a better overall bullet for elk and deer. As was said you can't overkill them. Elk are very tough if you don't make a killing shot and you need all the shock you can get to slow em up a bit at that. I'v loaded for myself and a lot of others and the 180gr. hasn't bothered them, recoil wise, and put an end to many a mule deer. You can't go wrong with either one but if you'll be doing a combined hunt for both animals it's nice to have an edge! 
Accubond Believer
Beginner
- Oct 29, 2005
- 56
- 0
For those who have commented before on this topic I agree. This is a great thread to read and follow. My personal "recipe" for the ulitmate one load kills all in the 30-06 is as follows 165 gr. Partition with 58.5 gr of H414 with a standard rifle primer. Have used this in several -06's over the years. +2900 fps for a velocity for those who care.
In my opinion and a couple of decades of observation of hunting bullets and the performance of them, the sierra is ok for deer but don't use it on an elk. Of course there are some who would probably say the opposite, but I don't think they read this page. The AccuBond is a hybrid of the Partition and the ballistic tip. I have used it for the last two years in my .280 with no complaints and awesome performance. When Nosler produces a 6mm AccuBond I will use them in that caliber also.
Just my two cents worth, the decision is yours.
In my opinion and a couple of decades of observation of hunting bullets and the performance of them, the sierra is ok for deer but don't use it on an elk. Of course there are some who would probably say the opposite, but I don't think they read this page. The AccuBond is a hybrid of the Partition and the ballistic tip. I have used it for the last two years in my .280 with no complaints and awesome performance. When Nosler produces a 6mm AccuBond I will use them in that caliber also.
Just my two cents worth, the decision is yours.
ok,i soaked this post up and it looks over....but to add to it....what about a .30-06 on steroids??? namely .30-06AI on antelope,deer,bear,elk or caribou??
roughly 150fps over the '06?? namely 180-200gr Partition or AccuBond?
it looks like the .30mags are using the 180 not the 200. what should it be,im ready to get some....
roughly 150fps over the '06?? namely 180-200gr Partition or AccuBond?
it looks like the .30mags are using the 180 not the 200. what should it be,im ready to get some....
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
I shoot a 300 RUM and I use the 200g AB for the added weight and definately because of the higher BC. When you shoot 500-1000 yards, you need all the wight and BC you can get. I would say for a 30-06 AI, the 180g AB would get my vote. It does not push the 200g fast enough to make up for anything, but would still put the hurt on game out to a reasonable range.
thats pretty much my thought,as of now..more details.....this is a APS custom with a 24 3/4" lilja bbl with a break.i was told the nosler #4 manual had AI data but i have not had a chance to get any farther than that.it will be set -up for up to 1k and hence the question on the 180 or 200 AB? does anybody have a max velocity list from the #4 for the 2 so the numbers can be run for energy? that way the right decision can be made the first time? thank you.
rem'06":5v6pmvx0 said:
This data is from Nosler #5:
30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved
-WLR primers
-Winchester cases
-OAL: 3.350"
180gr bullets ****Does not mention AccuBonds****
AA3100 (most accurate) 61.0 grains 2890 fps
(max load)
200gr bullets ****Does not mention AccuBonds****
AA3100 (most accurate) 55.0 grains 2452 fps
(listed max: 59 grains @ 2655 fps)
BTW: For what these manuals sell for (CHEAP) it's hard not to justify not owning one.....
Do you need more info? It lists six different powders for the two rounds.
thank youy very much mr dean,
my main concern is that i want to push the heavier bullet for the heavier mass but if i can't push it fast enough ,i will most likely go with the 180gr,with no regrets!the manual is on the christmas list but the store is an hour away for now.i have an earlier nosler book#2 but the AI is not listed.i saw it for like $25 bucks before i recieved my gun back,so no big deal.just didnt get back there yet.but when i do i want 500AB's not just the book.
the powders i currently have in 8lb are rl22 , h-4831 and h-4350
are they listed?? 2600fps for the 200 is a little slow...i have a crony and ballistic program to run the #'s just no load data yet to begin,i do know about load development and working up one. it will either be the 180AB or 200AB for sure though! leaning to 180 now,i just want whats BEST!
my main concern is that i want to push the heavier bullet for the heavier mass but if i can't push it fast enough ,i will most likely go with the 180gr,with no regrets!the manual is on the christmas list but the store is an hour away for now.i have an earlier nosler book#2 but the AI is not listed.i saw it for like $25 bucks before i recieved my gun back,so no big deal.just didnt get back there yet.but when i do i want 500AB's
not just the book.the powders i currently have in 8lb are rl22 , h-4831 and h-4350
are they listed?? 2600fps for the 200 is a little slow...i have a crony and ballistic program to run the #'s just no load data yet to begin,i do know about load development and working up one. it will either be the 180AB or 200AB for sure though! leaning to 180 now,i just want whats BEST!
