180 AB v. 200AB in .30-06

[sniper208]

I've read comments on the AB's in .300 Wby and started thinking (dangerous, I know) about what to use in my .30-06. I want your feedback. My primary quarry is elk, but I will use this load for other heavy critters if needed. I want maximum energy without sacrificing accuracy. Should I go with the 180 AB or the 200 AB? Which powder should I use to achieve maximum velocity (energy will follow)? I'd like to think I can push the load to over 2700 fps, but all I see for "best accuracy" loads is in the 2500 fps range. If I get 2500 fps out of a 200 AB, I think I will be better served with a 180 AB at 2700 fps. My thought process ends at 300 yards in a .30-06. I am sure my rifle can shoot an animal at longer distances, but I am not comfortable doing so. All feedback is very much appreicated!

Tim

 

[OU812]

I would go the 180 NP or AB route over the 200 AB in the 06. The 180 will give more than enough energy over the 200 out to 300 yards and it's flatter shooting. The acuracy load listed may not be the accuracy load for your rifle. My 338 has awesome accuracy at the listed max load for the listed powder I choose but the book shows best accuracy at the min for the powder I choose. My vel is about 120 FPS slower than the listed but I don't care, I can stack 3 shots on top of each other. Pick a powder from the book that shows a vel you want to TRY and achieve.

Start at the min powder charge and work up to the listed max while watching for signs of over pressure for your rifle. Since all rifle barrels are different, tight chamber, loose chamber, longer barrel, shorter barrel ect... so don't get hung up trying to reach the max listed vel. You may see the listed max vel, may see over list max vel or under max vel. Signs of over pressure will tell you the max vel and powder charge in your rifle for the particular powder you are using.

If it comes down to a few more FPS or accuracy, take the accuracy every time. Putting a great hunting bullet like the NP or AB in the right area of an elk or deer and allowing the bullet to do it's thing will get their attention much quicker than an addtional 100 FPS will if it's less accurate. Just my .02

 

[FOTIS]

My buddy Phineus just got back from Jackson Hole WY. I handloaded a 180 AB for him and he got a nice elk with 1 shot. Devastation galore.

 

[JD338]

I would go the 180 NP or AB route over the 200 AB in the 06. The 180 will give more than enough energy over the 200 out to 300 yards and it's flatter shooting. The acuracy load listed may not be the accuracy load for your rifle.
Pick a powder from the book that shows a vel you want to TRY and achieve.

Start at the min powder charge and work up to the listed max while watching for signs of over pressure for your rifle. Since all rifle barrels are different, tight chamber, loose chamber, longer barrel, shorter barrel ect... so don't get hung up trying to reach the max listed vel. You may see the listed max vel, may see over list max vel or under max vel. Signs of over pressure will tell you the max vel and powder charge in your rifle for the particular powder you are using.

If it comes down to a few more FPS or accuracy, take the accuracy every time. Putting a great hunting bullet like the NP or AB in the right area of an elk or deer and allowing the bullet to do it's thing will get their attention much quicker than an addtional 100 FPS will if it's less accurate. Just my .02

++1

Great advice for sure.

I would look at the 180 gr AB with RL22 :wink:

JD338

 

[sniper208]

Gentlemen - thanks! I agree accuracy is far more important than velocity. My thoughts about increased velocity is that higher energy would accompany a faster bullet. All I've read about the 180 is that the velocity and energy (with the right powder) will surpass the 200 at practical ranges for the .30-06.

JD, you mentioned RL-22. Why 22 over 19? I have always used IMR and know NOTHING about any of the Reliant powders. I've read Reliant measures better than IMR and that its more consistent. I have a pound of 19, but am not attached to it and have ZERO data on 19 with the 180 AB. I was told to start at 56 gr and work up to 58 gr. I've also heard I can go to 60 gr. I notice Nosler didn't even test 19 (or at least publish it). Any clues for a starting point? Thanks!

 

[JD338]

JD, you mentioned RL-22. Why 22 over 19? I have always used IMR and know NOTHING about any of the Reliant powders. I've read Reliant measures better than IMR and that its more consistent. I have a pound of 19, but am not attached to it and have ZERO data on 19 with the 180 AB. I was told to start at 56 gr and work up to 58 gr. I've also heard I can go to 60 gr. I notice Nosler didn't even test 19 (or at least publish it). Any clues for a starting point? Thanks!

I have had very good luck with Alliant powders in several calibers. I get very good velocities and excellent accuracy and this is across the board with RL15, RL19, RL22 and RL25.
Since you already have RL19, start with that. If you do not get the level of accuracy you want, try RL22.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... lletid=259

JD338

 

[sniper208]

Got it JD - thanks! I notice that RL19 recipe is 60 gr and yields 2800 fps. WOW! I'll see if it gives me the accuracy I want. If not, I'll try 22. Will keep y'all posted :grin:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sniper................Go to a ballistics chart & compare the down range velocity and energy between the 180 & the 200 gr........Hornady has a great external ballistics feature on their site. Just type in the your scope zero in yards, MV, bullet weight, BC, temp, any windage and wa---laa. There ya go!!!. Out to 300 yards on an elk, either one would be sufficient!!..... A tip? Zero your rifle in at 300 yards. Less guess work for any shot out to 400 yards and no guess work for any shot out to 300 yards.....You may be a little surprised though what the 200 grain can do!

 

[sniper208]

Big Squeeze - thanks! I have used the chart with other loads. I need to tied down THE load first. I've compared the 180 against the 200 with guessed velocities. I am guessing I can get the 180 to over 2700 fps and the 200 around 2500. At those guessed velocities, the 180 yields higher energy all the way out to 400 yards! IF I could push the 200 to 2700 fps, this becomes a no-brainer. The downrange energy is untouched.

I am already using the Maximum Point Blank concept. I zero between 224 and 262 so I am no more and no less than 4" above or below center between 0 and 300 yards. The flaw in that is I will be between 12" and 17" low at 400 yards. It all comes down to how much I can push the 200 AB and still get excellent accuracy. I am pretty sure I can get 2700+ fps out of the 180 with 58.0 to 60.0 gr. of RL19 and still get .500" grouping at 100 yards. The question is: what to use to push the 200 over 2700 fps and still group well?

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sniper......................Another good question to ask is;;; realistically, how much downrange energy in ft. lbs., minimum, would be needed to successfully down an elk with a well placed shot? This is a debatable subject, but a good rule of thumb is; a 1000 lbs. for deer & 1500 lbs. for an elk!! If your 180 gr. or the 200 gr. are on par with your downrange wishes, then either bullet weight would be fine! Remember too, that velocity isn`t necessarily everything!......Depending on the game & bullet, a slower heavier bullet may penetrate a little better than a faster but slower one!........Oh Well! Just a thought!..........Regardless of whatever the bullet weight is or the velocity, my advice would still be to use a 300 yard zero,,,just in case you have to make a 400 yarder!

 

[sniper208]

True....my 200 gr PT moves at 2450 fps. My thought process is to move the AB a little faster and gain some more downrange energy. I'll see what I can do with the 200 AB and post when I get there. Thanks again. I will probably need some help figuring out velocity as I cannot find much on the RL19 with the 180 AB.

 

[JD338]

The question is: what to use to push the 200 over 2700 fps and still group well?

300 Winchester Magnum :wink:

200 gr AB at +2900 fps, shoots flat and hits hard with excellent accuracy.
You can also load it down to 30-06 levels for target shooting and lesser game.

JD338

 

[OU812]

The question is: what to use to push the 200 over 2700 fps and still group well?

300 Winchester Magnum :wink:

200 gr AB at +2900 fps, shoots flat and hits hard with excellent accuracy.
You can also load it down to 30-06 levels for target shooting and lesser game.

JD338

That's why I love the 300win mag.

 

[old #7]

If a 160gr in a 270 is an aceptable round for elk......
try a 165 AB in your '06 for a flat trajectory and down range performance.
I agree that a 180 would be a better weight for elk but, in what gun, at what range. Like JD338 said a 2000 AB and a 300 mag will give you a flat shooting sledge hammer. I think a 165 AB in a 30'06 would take elk without any problems.

 

[Richracer1]

The question is: what to use to push the 200 over 2700 fps and still group well?

300 Winchester Magnum :wink:

200 gr AB at +2900 fps, shoots flat and hits hard with excellent accuracy.
You can also load it down to 30-06 levels for target shooting and lesser game.

JD338

Don't forget the mighty 300RUM!!! 200AB at 3100fps, got to love it. :grin:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sniper...............Ballistically the 300 RUM, as we all know, exceeds the 30-06! Even though it`s easy to, try not to get too hung up on MV #`s. I am not a 30-06 owner. But I am an avid, diehard 30 cal. fan!!!! Here is a very interesting 400 yard down range ballistic comparison between the `06 & the 300 RUM. This will really put things in proper perspective!! So! Don`t rush out and buy a 300 Win. or a RUM and dump your `06. Remember! Stats at the muzzle don`t count as much, even though you need them!! It`s the down range stats that really matter!..................The MV`s for both, are for the most part, on par with most reloading velocity specs........... Bullet=200 gr. Nosler A/B for both! .588 BC...........For a 300 RUM @ 3100 fps. MV, the 400 yard velocity at the target is 2472 fps., energy @ 400 yards is 2713 lbs. At a 300 yard zero, the bullet drop at 400 yards is 8.9"................For a 30-06 @ 2600 fps. MV, the 400 yard velocity at the target is 2036 fps., energy @ 400 yards is 1841 lbs. At a 300 yard zero, the bullet drop is 13.2"...........At 400 yards, with a well placed shot, which is also needed from the RUM, does the `06 have enough capability for bull elk???? YES IT DO!!!.....................The difference in bullet drop is only 4.3" @ 400 yards!!! SO! What`s the point in all this??? Very SIMPLE!!!!........YOU, as a 30-06 owner needs to do only one thing that the 300 RUM owners don`t need to do!!!............I can sum it up in four words & four words only!!!............................AIM A LITTLE HIGHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sniper208]

I agree a .300 Magnum would out-perform a .30-06. I have a .30-06 and don't see a purchase in the foreseeable future. So, as for my .30-06, the question remains what to use to push the 200 AB over 2700 fps.

I like the idea of using a 165 AB. I've already got a great load for the 165 Hornady SST. There shouldn't be too much difference in the IMR 4350 charge with the 165 AB. I looked at the externals on the 165 AB and the 180 AB. If I get the velocities I expect out of both, the 165 has higher energy all the way out to 300 yards. Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm...."

 

[Big Squeeze]

I have my brand new Sierra Edition #V in front of me.......These velocities however are for a 26" barrel length. Based on my chrony experience, you can deduct about 15 to 25 fps. for every inch shorter than the 26" that your barrel happens to be. These loads according to Sierra give the best velocities for a 26" barrel, 200 gr. bullet and are maximum!..................53.7 gr. IMR 4350 @ 2700 fps...................55.2 gr. Rel#19 @ 2700 fps....................55.8gr. IMR 4831 @ 2700 fps..............56.1 gr. Rel #22 @ 2700 fps...................58.3 gr. H4831SC @ 2700 fps............................Remember too! You want good hunting loads, not match loads....A 1 1/2" or even a 2" group is all you need!!....Your best way to determine velocity,,,in your rifle,,,is with a chrony!!!!!! .............. Hope this info is helpful!

 

[Big Squeeze]

You may not be able to get 2700 fps. That`s why I used the 2600 figure earlier.......Mr. Elk won`t know the difference....I`d use the 200 grainers if I were you!!!

 

[sniper208]

Thanks! I am not convinced I can get 2600 (accurately) out of a 200. I have a 200 PT and the most accurate load is pushed by 53.2 gr. of IMR 4831. That chrony'd at 2448 fps and printed .250". I might be able to push the 200 AB a little faster. I know I can get 2900 fps out of the 165 and get higher downrange energy.

I'll try both and post results. Thanks again!

Tim