180 AB v. 200AB in .30-06

[sniper208]

Big Squeeze.... you mentioned penetration in prior bullet comparisons. I know it looks like I am focusing solely on MV. Perhaps I am. I translate MV with energy. I've ignored penetration. I am confident I can absolutely nail a 165 AB load and get it to 2900 MV. The externals are very impressive for downrange energy. The 180 AB and 200 AB are slower and hit with less energy than the 165 AB. But what about penetration?

I am not overly concerned with shot placement. I get good groups and am very confident in my abilities to place the shot where it needs to be. I love the 165, but am concerned it willhit too hard and not give enough penetration to what needs to be done inside the animal (elk). I also feel the 165 is a bit light should I encounter any larger, tougher critters at some point in time.

I welcome your thoughts!

 

[JD338]

The heavier bullets will hit harder than the lighter bullets. They will also carrier their energy farther.
Think of a snow ball. Would you rather get hit with a light fluffy snow ball or one of those wet heavy ones? How about farther away? Same applies to bullets.

The 165 gr PT will work on Elk but the 180 gr and 200 gr will work better. Also keep in mind that elk are big and tough and you may have to plow through 3 feet of elk to get an exit wound. I would be looking at 180 gr or 200 gr bullets.
You will get plenty of penetration with the 200 gr AB at 2500-2600 fps MV even out to 300-400 yds. If you really want a 200 gr AB 2700+ you are going to have to go to a bigger case size.

Remember that the ballistics on paper are interesting but heavy bullets kill, regardless of speed. Your 30-06 with a 200 gr AB will get the job done up close or out to 300-400 yds.

JD338

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sniper................... Out of the three bullet weights, 165, 180 & 200, my 1st choice for elk is the 200 gr. You won`t need to worry with regard to penetration. You have to remember; that higher down range energy #`s, on paper, DO NOT automatically translate into more penetration on any game, elk or otherwise!!..........A slower heavier bullet will disentegrate less on impact and during the penetration process. It will retain a higher % of its original weight and mushroom more uniformly..........Sure! A 165 or the 180 will kill elk! Personally, I would not use a 165 gr. on elk! My minimum would be the 180 gr., with my 1st choice being the 200 gr.........Let me tell you what my rifle is & what my load is for elk this year. You`ll see that it is not too far away from your `06. This might give you better assurance!........I have a Ruger M77 Mark 2, Frontier compact chambered in a 300 WSM. The barrel length is only 16.5"........UH OH! The 1st reaction by all, including my closest shooting buddies, was obvious. "Why hell; your gonna lose yer ass in velocity!" "50 fps. or more for every damn inch!" "Damned thing looks like a 22!" "You gonna hunt elk with that?" Man! I took alot of crap; that is UNTIL we all went out to the range with my chrony! SSSSH! The dirty little secret is, that the velocity loss is only about 15 to 25 fps. per inch! I already knew that ahead of time, but kept quiet!!!....... Nope! Only about a 4.5% loss or less VS. the 24" 300 WSM! My chrony results prove it...........My 200 gr. Nosler A/B load was chrono`d at an average of 2828 fps. The 180`s at 2994 fps. with a group average of 1.220" or less! A few jaws were dropping at the range on that day!...........My point in all of this is very simple. My 200 gr. @ 2828 fps. will have the same effect on an elk as your `06 with a velocity of 2500 or 2600 fps; even out to 400 yards!.......The difference in down range ballistics between the two ARE NOT going to determine whether or not you will be successful!!!!!! Stop thinking about the 2700 fps. figure. It`s meaningless!.........Your focus now should be experimenting with different powders using the 200 gr. bullet. If you want to accurately determine your velocity, then buy a chrony!....You want the best accuracy possible for hunting loads (2" groups or less; you don`t need match accuracy for hunting), while maintaining the highest velocity possible,, for your rifle!.......If your best chrony results show 2500 or 2600 fps. with a 200 gr.,,,,,,then fine! I would personally hunt elk with that load,,,,no problem!!!! As previously mentioned, I`d use a 300 yard zero as well, less guess work that way...............

 

[sniper208]

Gentlemen: your points are well taken! I get into this annual funk about bullet choices and eventually get hung up on paper numbers. I am too danged analytical for my own good sometimes. I'll go with the 200 AB and see where she goes. I have the utmost confidence in my 200 PT (@ 2448 MV) and orignially hoped to improve on that load. It looks like the best improvement would be to go with the AB and keep everything else the same. I used 4831 with the 200 before and may try RL22 or IMR4350 with this load.

Thanks again for giving me a reality check. This Irishman needs an occasional knock up side the head now and then!

 

[JD338]

I'll go with the 200 AB and see where she goes. I have the utmost confidence in my 200 PT (@ 2448 MV) and orignially hoped to improve on that load. It looks like the best improvement would be to go with the AB and keep everything else the same. I used 4831 with the 200 before and may try RL22 or IMR4350 with this load.

The above load will kill elk to 400 yds all day long.
Good choice to look at RL22 with the 200 gr AB. :wink:

JD338

 

[sniper208]

Too late....I have more IMR 4350. It hasn't failed me yet. I'll have to look up mins & max, but I hope to start the process by the weekend! Any suggestions for a good starting point? my rifle seems to like max velocities better than mins - gets much better accuracy. Thanks!

 

[JD338]

Too late....I have more IMR 4350. It hasn't failed me yet. I'll have to look up mins & max, but I hope to start the process by the weekend! Any suggestions for a good starting point? my rifle seems to like max velocities better than mins - gets much better accuracy. Thanks!

Nosler RG #6 list the following load data-
30-06 200 gr
IMR4350 Start 49.0 grs MAX 53.0 grs

Good Luck, let us know how she shoots.

JD338

 

[sniper208]

Will do! Thanks. My shop doesn't have the #6 manual and said they can't get it yet. 49.0-53.0 - off to the press!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[old #7]

This is 165gr AB's , 57gr IMR 4831, CCI 200, RP brass, out of a Savage model 114 that I bought from POP and gave to my son for his b-day.
The heavier bullet you can use on elk the better but the 165 does have nice stats. this 3 shot group measured .325 center to center :grin:

 

[sniper208]

Hey Old #7....that pic looks suspiciously like my 165's!

I will load the 165's after i tie down the 200AB. I LOVE the 165's performance. I want to see what I can do with a heavier bullet though. I do, however, want to try the 165's at longer ranges just to see how it prints.

 

[goatboy_k]

posted this on another thread but might apply here

i'll prob get flamed for this but i load the 200gn AccuBond in my 30-06 with 54.5 gn of H4350 to get 2625 fps out of my 1903 springfield. I pretty for sure this is over max, but shows little pressure signs and shoots good. On paper this shows lots of enegry and carries well out to 400 yrds. I believe it puts it on par with the 180's at 2800 and should retain more at distance. Havn't killed anything with it yet except steel plates but the season is coming up and i plan to make it my all around killer. Loaded with remington brass and federal match mag primer.