180 PT's in 300WSM

[DrMike]

Charlie,

Swarovski scopes have never treated me badly. I have three now, and they work exceptionally well for me. Kahles, who was once associated with Swarovski, makes an equally good scope. I have four of them; I really can't distinguish much difference between them and the Swarovskis.

 

[tddeangelo]

Tom , I've been thinking and quickloading and ............ . here is what I'm thinking .
these are max loads.
IMR3031 is to fast case fill 90% and 2898 FPS
IMR4064 is to fast 91.8% ..............2913FPS
IMR4895 is a good choice 90.5% ......2960FPS
IMR4350 is a good choice 103.1% ....3003 FPS
H4350 is a good choice 100.5% ......3017FPS
RL17 is a good choice 92.9% ........3006FPS
RL22 is to slow 108.8% ................3067 FPS

I like a full case , but I try not to compress . compressing can cause other issues . I use a drop tube when I'm getting close to 100% case fill . I've had compressed load push the bullet back out a little, I'd reseat them the next day . I'd guess crunching powder could alter burn rate a little too . RL17 is supposed to be close to the 4350 burn rate . you said 4350 was about as good as you have tested so far . RL17 could be whats needed . my advice is to try RL17 . use a mag primer . start low and work up . nothings for sure here , anything can look good on paper but the proof is on the target . just something for you to think about . I wish you had a longer range and could shoot a ladder at 300 yards . this maybe could, sort of , kind of , short cut the process a little . Jim

Thanks, Jim!

I'm going to run some H4350 (best results with the AB's) under some PT's. If I can do it, I'll shoot tonight yet. Should tell the tale. I've seen it before.....long boattail bullet that doesn't shoot great gets its doors blown off accuracy-wise by a flat-base lead-pointed bullet. The boattail, if you look at BC's, means almost nothing when comparing an AB to a PT. It's very slight.

If that shows promise, I will try RL17, but honestly, if I get a 180gr PT to 2900 (give or take) and at or just over an inch, I'm going to say it's hunt-ready and worry about really tweaking it later.

 

[jimbires]

Tom , I've been thinking and quickloading and ............ . here is what I'm thinking .
these are max loads.
IMR3031 is to fast case fill 90% and 2898 FPS
IMR4064 is to fast 91.8% ..............2913FPS
IMR4895 is a good choice 90.5% ......2960FPS
IMR4350 is a good choice 103.1% ....3003 FPS
H4350 is a good choice 100.5% ......3017FPS
RL17 is a good choice 92.9% ........3006FPS
RL22 is to slow 108.8% ................3067 FPS

I like a full case , but I try not to compress . compressing can cause other issues . I use a drop tube when I'm getting close to 100% case fill . I've had compressed load push the bullet back out a little, I'd reseat them the next day . I'd guess crunching powder could alter burn rate a little too . RL17 is supposed to be close to the 4350 burn rate . you said 4350 was about as good as you have tested so far . RL17 could be whats needed . my advice is to try RL17 . use a mag primer . start low and work up . nothings for sure here , anything can look good on paper but the proof is on the target . just something for you to think about . I wish you had a longer range and could shoot a ladder at 300 yards . this maybe could, sort of , kind of , short cut the process a little . Jim

Thanks, Jim!

I'm going to run some H4350 (best results with the AB's) under some PT's. If I can do it, I'll shoot tonight yet. Should tell the tale. I've seen it before.....long boattail bullet that doesn't shoot great gets its doors blown off accuracy-wise by a flat-base lead-pointed bullet. The boattail, if you look at BC's, means almost nothing when comparing an AB to a PT. It's very slight.

If that shows promise, I will try RL17, but honestly, if I get a 180gr PT to 2900 (give or take) and at or just over an inch, I'm going to say it's hunt-ready and worry about really tweaking it later.

Tom , I should have said the IMR4064 is low on velocity . 4064 is a step slower burn than the IMR4895 , but doesn't give as much velocity . I'll be really interested how the flat base bullet works . heck Tom even an inch and a half is plenty good for letting the air out of a few deer . LOl Jim

 

[tddeangelo]

Tom , I've been thinking and quickloading and ............ . here is what I'm thinking .
these are max loads.
IMR3031 is to fast case fill 90% and 2898 FPS
IMR4064 is to fast 91.8% ..............2913FPS
IMR4895 is a good choice 90.5% ......2960FPS
IMR4350 is a good choice 103.1% ....3003 FPS
H4350 is a good choice 100.5% ......3017FPS
RL17 is a good choice 92.9% ........3006FPS
RL22 is to slow 108.8% ................3067 FPS

I like a full case , but I try not to compress . compressing can cause other issues . I use a drop tube when I'm getting close to 100% case fill . I've had compressed load push the bullet back out a little, I'd reseat them the next day . I'd guess crunching powder could alter burn rate a little too . RL17 is supposed to be close to the 4350 burn rate . you said 4350 was about as good as you have tested so far . RL17 could be whats needed . my advice is to try RL17 . use a mag primer . start low and work up . nothings for sure here , anything can look good on paper but the proof is on the target . just something for you to think about . I wish you had a longer range and could shoot a ladder at 300 yards . this maybe could, sort of , kind of , short cut the process a little . Jim

Thanks, Jim!

I'm going to run some H4350 (best results with the AB's) under some PT's. If I can do it, I'll shoot tonight yet. Should tell the tale. I've seen it before.....long boattail bullet that doesn't shoot great gets its doors blown off accuracy-wise by a flat-base lead-pointed bullet. The boattail, if you look at BC's, means almost nothing when comparing an AB to a PT. It's very slight.

If that shows promise, I will try RL17, but honestly, if I get a 180gr PT to 2900 (give or take) and at or just over an inch, I'm going to say it's hunt-ready and worry about really tweaking it later.

Tom , I should have said the IMR4064 is low on velocity . 4064 is a step slower burn than the IMR4895 , but doesn't give as much velocity . I'll be really interested how the flat base bullet works . heck Tom even an inch and a half is plenty good for letting the air out of a few deer . LOl Jim

Yeah, that's what I will settle for (for now), but I'm holding out hope the PT's shine....

 

[tecumseh]

RL-19 and 22 have turned out to be the goto powders for my 300 WSM. If the PT doesn't work out try a Hornady 180 gr Interlock SP, we went through several 180 gr bullets in my friends Savage 300 WSM and decided to split a box of these and they shoot lights out in his rifle with 67 gr of RL-19 and a Fed 215 LRM. I have some loaded for mine but haven't had time too see how they shoot.

 

[SJB358]

I would think RL22, RL17 or 19 would get something along with H4350. Out of those excellent powders with a PT, I would almost think you would find something that will shoot an 1" at worst. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Tecumseh,

It is interesting to note that you commend the 180 grain Hornady SP. It is my test bullet because I've not found a 300 WSM that does not shoot them well. I have used a few on game; combined with great accuracy, they mean lights out for most game at 2900+ fps.

 

[tddeangelo]

Pressed my .257 Roberts rounds, then started on the 300WSM rounds. Weighed, dumped, and seated a bullet on two charges and decided I'd set my balance scale wrong. Pulled the bullets, reweighed the charges, ran three rounds of AB's at (theoretically) 63.5gr of H4350, which had shot groups of 0.6, 1.3, and 1.6 prior. Decided to try it again.

Then seated one PT. Seemed like a lot of powder, so I rechecked my scale. I'm CONSTANTLY doing this...rechecking my scale. Good thing.

I WAS right with my charge on the first go-'round, but I then fudged up and set the balance scale to 68.5gr!!!!! YIKES!!!!!

This is why I always check, check, and recheck my scale. Pulled out the 4 seated bullets, dumped out the charges, and put everything away. I won't get to shoot till Friday now, so there's no rush, and I like my rifles and my anatomy to stay intact. I'll get back to it another evening when I'm not being a bonehead.

When I can keep my head clear, I want to re-shoot the 180AB with 63.5gr of H4350. At some point I seated them out to mag length, and the groups didn't improve, but somehow I didn't note that info in my log book. Either way, I decided to go back to "book length" where it shot well before and see what it does.

Then I want to run a few batches of H4350 under 180gr PT's.

But I'll do that another night. Not tonight.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Good call. A clear head without doubts is best at the reload bench.

I'm following this thread with interest as my friend has started to reload this year and has been leaning on me for help. Poor guy... He has had probs getting a load to shoot better than the Federal Vital-Shok 180gr Accubonds which are consistent at .7 - .9" for his M70 Extreme Wx.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Charlie,

Swarovski scopes have never treated me badly. I have three now, and they work exceptionally well for me. Kahles, who was once associated with Swarovski, makes an equally good scope. I have four of them; I really can't distinguish much difference between them and the Swarovskis.

DrMike, I only own one Swaroski scope (an AV 4-12x50) which I bought 10 years ago. The AV Model became the Z3 three years ago. I also own two Kahles scopes (both AH Models) that I bought in 2002-2003. They are respectively a 3-9x42 AH and a 3.5-10x50 AH Kahles. Additionally, I own two Zeiss Diavari scopes, a 3-9x36 Diavari C and a 5-15x42 Daivari V both made in Germany.

I believe that Swarovski still owns Kahles Optik but they reached an agreement that Kahles would market and manufacture separately last year. As I understand it, SWFA will be the US distributor for Kahles starting some time this year, and SWFA will handle service for Kahles as well which has been an issue since 2008. This is the last that I have heard in the continuing saga of Kahles representation in the USA after severing from Gamo.

I hope that Kahles does get back into a strong marketing position in the US. I believe that their scopes are every bit as good as Swarovski and there certainly is room in the growing premium optics segment for another company which makes a high quality optical product as well as Kahles does. I also hope that their one inch scope (KX Model) products will continue to be available and will be marketed here in the future. They are an excellent scope for a very good price.

 

[DrMike]

Charlie,

I also have three Diavari scopes. They are very good. I must say, however, that I am quite taken with the Swarovski and Kahles scopes, however.

 

[Oldtrader3]

DrMike, I like all of my good quality scopes. They all are very useful for my calibers and rifles that I have them mounted on. Overall, I am very pleased with the optics that I have been foprtumate to acquire through all these years of hunting. I am very lucky to have this good stuff.
Charlie

 

[tecumseh]

Tecumseh,

It is interesting to note that you commend the 180 grain Hornady SP. It is my test bullet because I've not found a 300 WSM that does not shoot them well. I have used a few on game; combined with great accuracy, they mean lights out for most game at 2900+ fps.

Dr. Mike.

My friends dad uses them in his 300 Win mag and suggested we give them a try. I was surprised how well they shot out of his rifle!

 

[DrMike]

Again, the Hornady InterLock is a good bullet that is well made. It is consistent if accuracy is any measure. I shoot a lot of them in my .280 as well. I don't know that it is better than a BT, but it is, nevertheless, a good bullet.

 

[tddeangelo]

I may try an interlock...I have killed a LOT of deer with them over the years. My issue with them is that they have shown a willingness to spit out their core, or even fragment, with even moderate impact velocities. I have not lost a single deer to them....and I only know what they've done in the deer because I've processed the deer they hit. But I don't like core/jacket separation, and I don't like complete fragmentation. Some folks prefer that, but I don't.

That's why I've looked more at the GMX, AccuBond, Interbond, and Partition bullets of late. I'm a fan of two drain holes in case the deer runs, plus the structure to withstand a double shoulder shot, even at close range. Some take another view of what a hunting bullet should do, and whatever brings success for someone is the right answer. For me, it's a bullet that cavitates lungs and provides two holes, one in and one out.

 

[Oldtrader3]

If you always want two holes (one in and one out) I would recommend a Partition. Out of 50-60 (whatever) deer that I have killed with a Partition, I have only recovered one bullet that went through an entire antelope, lengthwise and after penetrating the hip, was under the skin of the rump.

 

[SJB358]

If you always want two holes (one in and one out) I would recommend a Partition. Out of 50-60 (whatever) deer that I have killed with a Partition, I have only recouvered one bullet that went through an entire antelope, lengthwise and after penetrating the hip, was under the skin of the rump.

Charlie nailed my thoughts. Can't say it any better. You get BT like expansion and the grenading like effect with the front half and penetration with the rear core. I just don't see how it could get any better. I like the looks of the Swift A-Frames and know they are some very good bullets but I think the PT loosing lead and jacket as secondary missiles. After putting alot of bullets into jugs this past year and shooting a few animals in my past, I am convinced the PT really leads the pack. Again, not knocking the AB, Swifts or others, cause they are all great, but the PT looks exactly the same, everytime. That breeds a bunch of confidence. Scotty

 

[tddeangelo]

We'll see how they shoot soon! (The Partitions)

I can say, though...I was impressed with the GMX bullet. Small entrance, modest exit, not much meat damage, but the deer were hit hard, bled profusely, and only one of three that I shot so far with them ran anywhere (and he wasn't hard to find).

I value the penetration over the rapid disruption of the bullet, but I can see where the PT would kind of bring both to the table.

The AB I recovered from the 257 was impressive, though, to say the least!

 

[Big Squeeze]

Suggestions?

I've run H4350, H4831sc, and RL22 in my 300WSM with 180AB's and 1.5" is about as good as it seems to get.

Figured I'd try seat depth changes with the AB's, but I also picked up a box of 180gr PT's today to try.

I have IMR4350, H4350, IMR4064, IMR3031, RL22, and (I think) IMR4895 on hand.

Any suggestions?

.............Yeah........I`d have to say that with each powder, vary your seating depths before canning the powder down the road. For each of my never tried new loadings of the past, I always began with the max COAL the magazine will allow (say 9 rounds). Then load another series of 9 rounds backing off around 15/1000ths and repeat again backing off another 15/1000ths. Then test fire all three series for accuracy.

H-4350, H4831, IMR4350, RL19-22 are very good choices for the 300 WSM. RL17 is another great choice for some extra velocity push. I use H-4350, RL17, IMR4007, N150, N165 in my 300 WSM.

Play with your seating depths because different rifles like different bullet jump distances before hitting the lands.

You can knock yourself out trying this powder and that powder, but usually the problems with accuracy is solved by seating depth adjustments.

 

[tddeangelo]

Suggestions?

I've run H4350, H4831sc, and RL22 in my 300WSM with 180AB's and 1.5" is about as good as it seems to get.

Figured I'd try seat depth changes with the AB's, but I also picked up a box of 180gr PT's today to try.

I have IMR4350, H4350, IMR4064, IMR3031, RL22, and (I think) IMR4895 on hand.

Any suggestions?

.............Yeah........I`d have to say that with each powder, vary your seating depths before canning the powder down the road. For each of my never tried new loadings of the past, I always began with the max COAL the magazine will allow (say 9 rounds). Then load another series of 9 rounds backing off around 15/1000ths and repeat again backing off another 15/1000ths. Then test fire all three series for accuracy.

H-4350, H4831, IMR4350, RL19-22 are very good choices for the 300 WSM. RL17 is another great choice for some extra velocity push. I use H-4350, RL17, IMR4007, N150, N165 in my 300 WSM.

Play with your seating depths because different rifles like different bullet jump distances before hitting the lands.

You can knock yourself out trying this powder and that powder, but usually the problems with accuracy is solved by seating depth adjustments.

H4350 was the clear winner in what I shot....charges of 63.5gr and 64.5gr are both equally good from what I can tell. I think I'll work some batches of varying seat depths for each, plus some loads for Partitions, too, just because I have them.