22-250 :) 30-06 :(

[wisconsinteacher]

I hit the range this morning with the 22-250 and 30-06.

22-250 with 38.5gr of Win 760 I used different seating depths measured off the ogive
2.015"=.746
2.010"=.334
2.005"=.638
2.000"=.698
1.995"=1.013

The .334 is my best group ever. Before the third shot, there was paper between the first two. After the shot, I could see the one hole through my scope down range!!!
I am going to load up 10 more rounds of the same specs to retest. It sure is fun to shoot 5 different groups and only one is a touch over an inch.

Now to the 06. I reload the with the same technique for the 06 when compared to the 22-250. I shoot them the same way but I can not get a small group. I tried a few different seating depths and charge weights and the best I did was 1.226"

H4350 with 165 BT .03 off the lands
57gr=1.226
57.5gr=1.879
58gr=1.870

H4350 with 165 BT .045 off the lands
57gr=3.00
57.5gr=1.839
58gr=1.866

As you can see 1.8xx is a common number. The 3.00 felt good when I fired the shot. I am starting to get frusturated with this rifle. I am thinking about moving to 180 BT for the next time I head to the range. If you have any ideas, please throw them at me.

Here is the best group.

 

[DrMike]

It is a source of real satisfaction when everything comes together. By the same token, it is extremely frustrating when you just can't get things to come together. You're there on the 22-250. I don't recall if you ever gave the twist on your 30-06. Do a measure and let us know. Two thoughts occur to me. First, you are likely nowhere near a node for accuracy. Refresh my memory for how you selected the OAL chosen on your loads. It is entirely possible that the rifle will shoot heavier bullets much better. So, a move to the 180 grain may be in order. However, it is difficult for me to believe that the 165 BT won't work.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

For the 06, I wanted to try 165 bullets first. As far as seating depth, I made them deep enough so they would fit in the mag box. .03 off the lands is as close as I can get. Then I made some up that were .045 off the lands. This was the first time shooting it since the trigger job, I am not really taking my groups from before into account. I started fresh today with these loads. I could set the bullet deeper and try them again. I have a few 165s left. I don't know the twist of the barrel. It is a factory Ruger M77 that is 18 years old. I am going to clean it up again and decide of what to reload next.

I have 11 165 BT bullets left. How would you load them up?

 

[FOTIS]

Nice! I would be smiling!

 

[velvetant]

May not like the bullet or that weight.
My buddies 30-06 will shoot 180NAB under and inch all day long but can't get the 180NBT to group under 2.5"
If it's a bullet you really want to use try some different powders.
Your technique for seating the bullets if perfect.
Those 22-250 groups look really nice.

Randy

 

[DrMike]

You know the group size is unacceptable at 0.030 and at 0.045 inches off the lands. You know that 0.030 is as close as you can load to the lands. Consequently, if you wish to check seating depth, it is seat them deeper into the case or nothing. Randy's suggestion of different powder is certainly worthy of consideration if you wish to continue with the 165 grain bullet. However, I'd be inclined to try the remainder of my BTs, focusing, perhaps, on 57.0 grains of H4350 and seating bullets at 0.060, 0.075 and 0.090 inches off the lands. You get the benefit of range time and gather a little more information.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Well I will try seating the 165 BT .06, .075 and .09 off the lands with 57gr of H4350. I am wondering if I should crack the box of 180s open and load them up for the next range trip or wait until I see what the 165s do. My ultimate goal is to get AB bullets shooting out of the rilfe. I was hoping to get the BT close then change over to AB and fine tune from there.

 

[SJB358]

I'm with Mike on this WT. I would seat them further back. I have found many of my loads shoot just as well with some jump as with them right on top of the lands. Don't give up, try your best of 57gr's and seat them deeper. You should have enough left to see if they will work. Scotty

 

[Guest]

If you want to use 180's in your -06, crack the box and test them. If you're inclined to shoot the 165's, I am with Dr. Mike on testing them at markedly shorter COL's. I'd also consider (unless you saw pressure signs at 58gr) going up to 59gr of H4350 if you can. Seems like from your bullet count you'd have to buy more to do that, though. Maybe if you find the 165's to group well at shorter COL you could swap out the 180's for more 165's and try 59gr. That charge gave me a sub-.5" group of three at 100yds on my last range trip. Heading out to test that as soon as I can get some time to hit the range again.

Good luck with it all. I've got some rifles that just won't shoot under 1" consistently, and they all seem to hover around 1.1-1.7" for groups of three. This is after trying multiple powders, bullets, and COL's. I've given up on them and accept them as 1.5MOA rifles. Still good enough for hunting, and I like the rifle otherwise, so there it stays. If I didn't like the rifles, I'd rebarrel or swap them for something I wanted.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

If you were to crack open the 180s, would you start deeper due to the way the rifle is shooting the 165s?

 

[Guest]

Here's how I'd load the 180's (or anything, starting from scratch):

Load at max feed length to start.
Load a series (workup from start to max charge) using what's labeled as the most accurate powder in the Nosler manual, or a powder reputed to be ideal (such as H4350 for 165's in the 30-06 - your experience notwithstanding).
Shoot these at the range.
If any of them group near 1.5" or less, make notes on those.
Re-try the ones that grouped well and vary COL if they were not completely satisfactory during the pressure testing. Shorten COL by .005-.010 per step and shoot groups of three.

I have yet to have a rifle not give me 1.5" or less by using that method. For me, having a ton of different powders on the bench, I usually do two or sometimes three different workups for pressure testing the first trip to the range. Then I simply choose the best powder/bullet combo(s) to tweak seating depth for range trip #2. I have had rifles that I've had to make many trips to the range to find a good load, and in some instances I've had to switch bullets a number of times (the worst is five different bullets - weight and type changes made). But this is the most methodical process I've been able to work with that gives me satisfactory results. Usually, within the first two powders tried, on one of the first two bullets.

 

[OU812]

Here's how I'd load the 180's (or anything, starting from scratch):

Load at max feed length to start.
Load a series (workup from start to max charge) using what's labeled as the most accurate powder in the Nosler manual, or a powder reputed to be ideal (such as H4350 for 165's in the 30-06 - your experience notwithstanding).
Shoot these at the range.
If any of them group near 1.5" or less, make notes on those.
Re-try the ones that grouped well and vary COL if they were not completely satisfactory during the pressure testing. Shorten COL by .005-.010 per step and shoot groups of three.

Dubyam gives good advise and that too is how I start with new loads for a caliber (8mm excluded as the lands are closer than mag box max). And to be honest I have found great accuracy with the bullet seated right at max mag box length while still allowing feeding with no issues.

One change you might consider trying is using IMR4350 rather than H4350, I've had better luck accuracy wise with IMR.

Bill

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

WT, your 22-250 load is almost identical to mine. Shoots great in my 788.

On your .06: I suggest you work on one variable at a time. Settle on power charge, then OAL. Trying to do both at the same time creates too many variables, and it will drive you NUTS.

 

[OldMan]

You might try the 760 in the 06 just for heck of it. That powder does a great job in a lot of the 06's. I've used IMR 4350 in several 06's with the 165 BT and AB with great accuracy, never tried the H4350.