.223 For Deer
- Thread starter Bowhntr
- Start date
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,186
- 5,656
Nosler sixty-four grain Bonded Solid Base would be your bullet.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,930
- 7,830
Doc nailed it. Go with the 64 gr BSB.
JD338
JD338
HeathSexton
Handloader
- May 12, 2006
- 1,205
- 34
Not what you listed but if I was using a .223 for deer a Hornady 55gr GMX, a 55gr or 62gr Barnes TTSX would be the 3 bullets on my short list.
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Search for topics on the 64 grain nosler bonded solid base here on the reloading forum and also in the .224 section of the bullet test forum.
It will stabilize in 1-12 and 1-9 twist which the 70 grain Barnes will not.
Two good choices though.
It will stabilize in 1-12 and 1-9 twist which the 70 grain Barnes will not.
Two good choices though.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
My largest SE whitetail dressed at 195 pounds. I would not use a .223 or 5.56mm for deer. My $0.02 cents worth
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 805
- 111
What does a whitetail weigh (Average)? Do you have any state legislation requirement for bullet MV & energy to take differing species of deer?
.223 seems very lightweight cartridge to use on this kind of game..however, in the UK we do have the above requirements for shooting deer, so we're tuned in to that. A .22 centrefire would only be allowed in Scotland for small roe deer (Avg 30-40 lbs weight) & not at all in England. The smallest in England would be .243.
Just curious. ATB ET
.223 seems very lightweight cartridge to use on this kind of game..however, in the UK we do have the above requirements for shooting deer, so we're tuned in to that. A .22 centrefire would only be allowed in Scotland for small roe deer (Avg 30-40 lbs weight) & not at all in England. The smallest in England would be .243.
Just curious. ATB ET
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
- 850
- 0
Agree with you Charlie. That sounds like hunting Elk with a .243. Believe it or not I've seen some big deer come out of florida.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
I've killed quite a few deer with the .223, but must admit they were all in some sort of distress. Injured by dogs, collisions with cars or trains. Caught in a deer fence. Sick. Whatever.
Only once did it take two shots from the little AR-15, using 55 gr soft point ammo. Most of the kills were instant. Some of the deer were quite mobile. Much quicker kills than I usually got using the .45 ACP pistol.
Both worked though. I understand that hunting with the .223 has become quite popular, mostly because of the popularity of the AR-15 I'd guess. Still not legal to use the .223/5.56 on deer here in Washington, but given a decent marksman, I'd think it would work just fine. Put that expanding bullet in the lungs & heart, and you've got a dead deer.
Guy
Only once did it take two shots from the little AR-15, using 55 gr soft point ammo. Most of the kills were instant. Some of the deer were quite mobile. Much quicker kills than I usually got using the .45 ACP pistol.
Both worked though. I understand that hunting with the .223 has become quite popular, mostly because of the popularity of the AR-15 I'd guess. Still not legal to use the .223/5.56 on deer here in Washington, but given a decent marksman, I'd think it would work just fine. Put that expanding bullet in the lungs & heart, and you've got a dead deer.
Guy
NWBlacktail
Handloader
- Dec 17, 2011
- 357
- 0
I haven't tried the 64 grn Bonded Solid Base, but I thought I've heard something about it being developed for the AR platform. My 223 is a Rem 700 VTR, with a 1:9 twist.
I have tried 62 grn Barns TTSX, my first test loads didn't turn out. I was 0.1" off the lands, I have another test string at 0.15" deep (with Varget). Still working on it...
I made several runs at the 60 grn Partitions, but I couldn't get them go group much better the 1.5 to 2".
My main load for target shooting and coyotes is 60 grn Hornady V-Max using Varget. I get 0.6" groups with that, but that's also not a suitable bullet for deer size animals.
So, I've played with bullets that could do the job on deer, but with not luck so far. But to be honest, I have so many other rifle options for deer that I have no reason to work at it too hard. :mrgreen:
I have tried 62 grn Barns TTSX, my first test loads didn't turn out. I was 0.1" off the lands, I have another test string at 0.15" deep (with Varget). Still working on it...
I made several runs at the 60 grn Partitions, but I couldn't get them go group much better the 1.5 to 2".
My main load for target shooting and coyotes is 60 grn Hornady V-Max using Varget. I get 0.6" groups with that, but that's also not a suitable bullet for deer size animals.
So, I've played with bullets that could do the job on deer, but with not luck so far. But to be honest, I have so many other rifle options for deer that I have no reason to work at it too hard. :mrgreen:
Larry in SD
Handloader
- Nov 8, 2004
- 426
- 1
I tried really really hard to get 60gr. Partitions to shoot but was never able to get a load I was happy with so I went back to my old standby. That old standby was the 64gr. Winchester Power Point loaded with W-748. That has accounted for a few one shot kills on Whitetails and Pronghorns. None were drop in their tracks DRT but one shot kills non the less.
More recently I switched to the 65gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails loaded with Varget. They actually shoot a bit tighter groups. Only two Whitetails have fallen to this load (one by my granddaughter and one by a buddies daughter). I was not present when my buddies daughter shot her Whitetail but if I remember right she hit it a bit far back and it required a second shot. My granddaughter's Whitetail was not a very good test as the little buck was over 15 yards. I instructed her to aim at the white patch on his throat and he was dead before he hit the ground.
I have also used the Speer 70gr. Semi Pointed with good results as I have Winchester 55gr. Pointed Soft Point factory ammo.
The key is reasonable range and put the bullet in the right place.
Larry
More recently I switched to the 65gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails loaded with Varget. They actually shoot a bit tighter groups. Only two Whitetails have fallen to this load (one by my granddaughter and one by a buddies daughter). I was not present when my buddies daughter shot her Whitetail but if I remember right she hit it a bit far back and it required a second shot. My granddaughter's Whitetail was not a very good test as the little buck was over 15 yards. I instructed her to aim at the white patch on his throat and he was dead before he hit the ground.
I have also used the Speer 70gr. Semi Pointed with good results as I have Winchester 55gr. Pointed Soft Point factory ammo.
The key is reasonable range and put the bullet in the right place.
Larry
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
Larry in SD":18r1ik69 said:
Couldn't agree more Larry.
No matter what cartridge & bullet are in use.
Regards, Guy
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,930
- 7,830
The 64 gr BSB was indeed designed for the AR platform but it also worked very well
in a 700 1:14 twist 22-250 at 3372 fps. Shooting into water jugs the penetration was excellent,
recovering the bullet in the 5th jug.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=18868
JD338
in a 700 1:14 twist 22-250 at 3372 fps. Shooting into water jugs the penetration was excellent,
recovering the bullet in the 5th jug.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=18868
JD338
- Thread starter
- #16
- Thread starter
- #17
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,186
- 5,656
Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.822 grain H2O = 1.677 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Benchmark
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 79 18.56 2388 810 29413 5766 88.0 1.312
-18.0 81 19.02 2443 848 31258 5943 89.2 1.280
-16.0 83 19.49 2498 887 33214 6116 90.3 1.248
-14.0 85 19.95 2554 927 35289 6285 91.4 1.218
-12.0 87 20.42 2609 967 37491 6448 92.4 1.188
-10.0 89 20.88 2664 1008 39826 6606 93.4 1.154
-08.0 91 21.34 2719 1050 42303 6758 94.2 1.123
-06.0 93 21.81 2773 1093 44933 6904 95.1 1.093
-04.0 95 22.27 2828 1136 47725 7042 95.9 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 22.74 2882 1180 50691 7173 96.6 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 23.20 2936 1225 53844 7297 97.2 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 23.66 2990 1270 57197 7412 97.8 0.983 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 24.13 3044 1316 60766 7518 98.3 0.958 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 24.59 3097 1363 64568 7615 98.7 0.933 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 25.06 3150 1410 68621 7702 99.1 0.910 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 25.52 3203 1458 72947 7780 99.4 0.887 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 23.20 3062 1333 62883 7250 99.8 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 23.20 2771 1091 45043 7044 91.3 1.093
Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.822 grain H2O = 1.677 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 54000 psi, or 372 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2495 104.2 24.3 1.57 3051 100.0 54000 7814 1.025 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 105.9 25.2 1.63 3045 95.3 54000 8295 0.998 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 101.1 26.3 1.70 3040 96.6 54000 8198 0.998 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 25.6 1.66 3040 99.2 53497 8029 1.026 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 109.5 26.4 1.71 3038 96.3 54000 8200 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 101.7 25.5 1.65 3031 98.3 54000 7913 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 107.2 25.5 1.65 3030 95.2 54000 8175 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 106.6 25.4 1.64 3025 94.4 54000 8159 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 27.5 1.78 3013 93.9 50639 8658 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 107.7 26.2 1.70 2994 92.5 54000 8026 1.005 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52264 8224 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52264 8224 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 104.0 24.2 1.57 2983 96.7 54000 7756 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 96.6 24.7 1.60 2980 97.6 54000 7615 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 108.3 26.2 1.69 2922 87.9 54000 7589 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 26.8 1.73 2917 90.5 46865 8145 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 107.7 26.8 1.73 2858 87.4 54000 7065 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.822 grain H2O = 1.677 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Benchmark
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 79 18.56 2388 810 29413 5766 88.0 1.312
-18.0 81 19.02 2443 848 31258 5943 89.2 1.280
-16.0 83 19.49 2498 887 33214 6116 90.3 1.248
-14.0 85 19.95 2554 927 35289 6285 91.4 1.218
-12.0 87 20.42 2609 967 37491 6448 92.4 1.188
-10.0 89 20.88 2664 1008 39826 6606 93.4 1.154
-08.0 91 21.34 2719 1050 42303 6758 94.2 1.123
-06.0 93 21.81 2773 1093 44933 6904 95.1 1.093
-04.0 95 22.27 2828 1136 47725 7042 95.9 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 22.74 2882 1180 50691 7173 96.6 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 23.20 2936 1225 53844 7297 97.2 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 23.66 2990 1270 57197 7412 97.8 0.983 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 24.13 3044 1316 60766 7518 98.3 0.958 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 24.59 3097 1363 64568 7615 98.7 0.933 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 25.06 3150 1410 68621 7702 99.1 0.910 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 25.52 3203 1458 72947 7780 99.4 0.887 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 23.20 3062 1333 62883 7250 99.8 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 23.20 2771 1091 45043 7044 91.3 1.093
Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.822 grain H2O = 1.677 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 54000 psi, or 372 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2495 104.2 24.3 1.57 3051 100.0 54000 7814 1.025 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 105.9 25.2 1.63 3045 95.3 54000 8295 0.998 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 101.1 26.3 1.70 3040 96.6 54000 8198 0.998 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 25.6 1.66 3040 99.2 53497 8029 1.026 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 109.5 26.4 1.71 3038 96.3 54000 8200 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 101.7 25.5 1.65 3031 98.3 54000 7913 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 107.2 25.5 1.65 3030 95.2 54000 8175 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 106.6 25.4 1.64 3025 94.4 54000 8159 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 27.5 1.78 3013 93.9 50639 8658 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 107.7 26.2 1.70 2994 92.5 54000 8026 1.005 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52264 8224 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52264 8224 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 104.0 24.2 1.57 2983 96.7 54000 7756 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 96.6 24.7 1.60 2980 97.6 54000 7615 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 108.3 26.2 1.69 2922 87.9 54000 7589 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 26.8 1.73 2917 90.5 46865 8145 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 107.7 26.8 1.73 2858 87.4 54000 7065 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,190
- 2,850
Oldtrader3":1th1ydax said:
neither would I.
HeathSexton
Handloader
- May 12, 2006
- 1,205
- 34
FOTIS":uscu9x81 said:
I have not used a .223 for deer but lots of people have with great success. I would use a good mono bullet from a .223 and never think twice about it from the penetration tests I have seen.
In this thread a guy tested quite a few .30 cal bullets, the little 55gr GMX dug deeper and expanded near the same as a 200gr AccuBond and it out did several good .30 cal bullets. Most guys I know would not worry about the penetration or ability to break bones with a 200gr AccuBond.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ow_femurs_
