25-06 Issue

[highcotton]

Well, I was doing a little loading for a buddy's 25-06 this afternoon and encountered an issue I have never had before. I do not do any neck sizing, and the brass for this rifle has been neck sized since new- around 3-4 firings. I loaded for this rifle last year with absolutely no problems. I neck sized and fully prepped the brass last night. We loaded a handful of AB's, and then switched to BT's. After several BT's I began to notice the stroke on the press just didn't feel right. Also realized that several of the rounds had to be seated a couple times to get desired COL with the comparator. Then I had the "noticeable" issue- donuts at the neck/shoulder junction. I am assuming that shoulder movement over the firings is the culprit, and figured we needed to full length resize the remaining brass. Not all of the difficult seating rounds had a donut, just difficulty getting proper seating depth. Not knowing what else to try, I backed the die a full turn off the shell holder, reset the seater plug, and loaded another round. The press stroke was normal, and COL was dead on. The rounds loaded prior to die adjustment will not chamber without difficulty- if at all. The ones loaded after the die adjustment seem to chamber fine. My question is by readjusting the die did we remedy a symptom of the problem or the actual problem? Is full length sizing in order, or can the brass continue to be loaded with the die adjustment made?

Again, I partial full length all of my personal loads, but used my buddy's RCBS neck sizing die set to load these. Again, loaded 75-100 rounds last year with the same set-up with NO ISSUE. I'm wondering if it s time to get some new brass and start over, or do I pull bullets, dump powder, and full length the brass we have. I have no idea.......guidance appreciated.

HC

 

[Dr. Vette]

I would full length size all of them if it were me. 3-4 times neck sizing is about all you can expect before you need to FL size them. This is assuming he was using a conventional neck sizer with an expander ball.

Let's see if others agree.

They may need annealing too, but that's a whole 'nother topic. :shock:

 

[Oldtrader3]

If you normally partially full size, then you should keep doing that. I do not use any dies that I have not set up myself (in my press), with my dies. Using your buddy's dies to neck size is the basis of your problem, most likely.

 

[1Shot]

Sounds to me that you just had your seating die body adjusted down too far and thus allowed the roll crimping part of the seating die to hit the mouth of the case and this caused the neck to be pushed down and buckled. This is a buckle of the case neck and not a doughnut. Have you trimmed your cases? Cases could be too long from when you used the seating die before if you had not changed it's setting. When you backed the seating die off the shell holder, (like you should), if you don't want to crimp the case neck into a bullet that has a cannelure everything works properly.

 

[highcotton]

Just to clarify, I was loading with his dies for his rifle. Loaded last year with identical set-up with absolutely zero issues. Case lengths prior to loading were all OK, no trimming necessary.

 

[Guy Miner]

I think it's time for new brass, unless you want to ream out those donuts.

My .25-06 gets mostly neck sized ammo. Eventually I have to full length size it.

Anytime there is unusual pressure required to seat the bullets,there is a brass problem to resolve.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I full length size my 30-06 brass every firing, but minimally. I set the shoulder back just about 0.002 to 0.004 inches.

I agree with Guy and others--time for some new brass?

 

[Vince]

Any chance your die got out of adjustment since you last used it?
I'd look at full length resizing every third or fourth loading and trimming cases after every firing.

 

[elkeater2]

Same brass, same die set-up. Only thing different is the brass was fired one more time, right? Or it seems that way from what has been written. Case lengths were "OK" but according to which specification, and are they not longer than before? It is hard to visualize without being there. I agree with Dr. Vette - pull, dump and full resize. I also agree it might be good to drop the cash and start a new batch of brass after this many firings. Cheap insurance. One thing I do sometimes - use a Dremel reinforced cut-off disc and section a couple examples of the brass. It can show you a lot, including donuts if that is what you've got.
The first time I sectioned brass this way was for a 25-06 that was showing hints of brass separation after 4-5 firings and full length sized. This was brass that had no exterior cracks and nothing for a pick to snag on inside either. I could see a shadow when shining an LED light in there at a certain angle and decided to section. Yep, there was an obvious stretched area right where separations eventually happen.
Good luck with your puzzle - there must be something visually and measurably different with that brass. If not, something in the setup changed somehow. Maybe the sizer lock ring got moved by gremlins. I don't like working on other people's stuff, using their gear, for this reason.
EE2

 

[ElmerThud]

I’ve had issues with neck sizing my .25-06 rounds in the past and made a decision to revert to full length sizing as a matter of course. This for two reasons…1st having developed a load for the N/S round, this would only work for 3-4 firings and the next F/L sized rounds never zero to the same/similar impact point @ 100yds.
2nd it’s a pain having to waste bullets re-fireforming the brass for neck sizing again having F/L sized the brass.

I thought there must be a better way..and so there is. Perhaps Highcotton the OP refers to it as ‘partial F/L sizing’?
Checking the fired cartridge headspace (with primer removed) i.e. from centre of neck to cartridge head on my .25-06 brass, the measurement is 2.049”. I use a Hornady/Stoney Point headspace guage to set my F/L sizing die to resize brass exactly to the same dimension +/- .0005” so my range is 2.0485” to 2.0495”

Doing the above has ensured consistent brass dimensions aiding accuracy, maintaining zero and most importantly reducing case stretching due to excessive headspace after normal F/L sizing.
Having carefully measured my brass H/S dimension both on the fired case and by using Rizla papers to find the Go/No-Go brass fit into the breech, I now find I have more consistent and accurate ammunition each time I reload.

Annealing the cases I use after each 5th firing also extends case life further….however, I still get to a point where I must fireform new cases. It is a longer period of time now though. ATB

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Just fl size them and trim them back to specs. It will solve your problem.

3-4 firings is nothing for 2506 brass...I dont toss them untill at least 8-10 depending and thats just to be safe. I neck size and usually have to fl size every 3-4 firings, this is when I also trim. I also trim to take .015" off as it will go another firing that way without having to trim as often.

Theres no problem using someone elses dies in different presses as long as you set them back up correctly...