25-06 running slow?

[Guy Miner]

I have some Retumbo on the shelf, so I will run a few groups to check velocities. If it remains consistently 350 to 400 off I expect to still fall short of 3000fps by a bit.

Retumbo and the 115 gr bullets have worked wonderfully for me. Work up to Nosler's max recommended load for the 115 B-Tips.

I'm seeing 3120 fps with excellent accuracy using Nosler's max recommended load of 57.5 grains. Nosler predicts 3170 fps from that load. Close enough for me.

With the 115 Partitions I was able to load up to Hodgdon's recommended max for 117's, and see an average of 3190 fps, again, with very good accuracy.

What you'll see with your shorter barrel? Who knows?

Best of luck on this. That Retumbo load has been my choice for some years now, with the 115 gr bullets. Very accurate, very deadly, even out at 300 - 400 yards on mule deer.

Regards, Guy

 

[SJB358]

Try RL22, RL25 and Retumbo.

JD338

I'm with JD a 1000% on this one. The 25-06 will find a 2nd node as you start creeping into the 60k range. I would bet with some tuning on your BOSS you get to where you should be.

 

[1Shot]

ksubuck those loads you listed with the predicted velocity are NOT REAL WORLD VELOCITY. It takes a bit more powder than you listed for all the loads to get the predicted velocity even in a 26" barrel. I shoot 49 grs IMR 4350 with 117 Sierra Pro Hunters with a CCI 250 mag primer in a Rem. case out of a 26" Shilen barrel and average between 2990 to 3000 fps. 52 grs H4831 runs about the same. From my experience with a 24" barrel these loads run about 80 fps slower. Pour on some more coal to get your speed up.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

The guys that posted before me have a lot of knowledge and I don't have much to offer other than to run some factory ammo and see what speeds you get with that. Maybe it will give you a baseline to start from????

 

[SJB358]

The guys that posted before me have a lot of knowledge and I don't have much to offer other than to run some factory ammo and see what speeds you get with that. Maybe it will give you a baseline to start from????

Great advice. Definitely a good way to see what's there.

 

[Vince]

The guys that posted before me have a lot of knowledge and I don't have much to offer other than to run some factory ammo and see what speeds you get with that. Maybe it will give you a baseline to start from????

Great advice. Definitely a good way to see what's there.

[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

The guys that posted before me have a lot of knowledge and I don't have much to offer other than to run some factory ammo and see what speeds you get with that. Maybe it will give you a baseline to start from????

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[Darkhorse]

When you increase your charge weight you will lose the node you found with the lighter load. The bullet will either exit before or after the node due to velocity changes.
When working up hunting loads I work up my charge weight to find the heaviest charge that is safe in my rifle. Then I load 3 at a guessed bullet seating depth, then 3 more seated .010 to .020 deeper, then 3 more etc. As you shoot these groups for accuracy you will see your group change both size and location on your target. Sometimes a rifle likes more bullet jump, sometimes less, by keeping good records you can track what your rifle likes.
If you did your case prep correctly and resized for minimum headspace and have the concentricity puzzle figured out, then you will find a new node that gives acceptable accuracy at the higher pressure and velocity your seeking.
The BOSS will allow you to finetune to unexpected accuracy. I have one on my .300 Win. Mag. and I expect 1/2 MOA or less. The trick is to fire enough rounds to really get it worked out. I shot a couple of hundred getting mine dialed in.
When you are searching for your maximum charge weight you should chrono these loads. If the rifle still doesn't give acceptable velocity there's no point in going through all this stuff I've just mentioned. I'd ditch the rifle and start over.
Attached are 2 samples. One is with a light load where I was basically seeing if the barrel needed replacing or not. The other is with the published max. that I'm using for hunting this year. Notice the difference in seating depths.

 

[kraky]

Fwiw years ago I had a boss equipped 270 bar.
The first time to the range I set it for their guessed sweetspot for 140 grainers.
To my surprise it shot all bullet wts to the same tiny point of impact. You could throw a 130,140,150 in the magazine and shoot a sub moa group. This was before they offered the solid barrel tuner. I sold the boss/270 cause it was crazy loud and it caught on small twigs while making drives through heavy brush. Had I known the non muzzle break option was coming I'd probably still own it. I'm thinking the op's gun has some good shooting in it...just gotta be explored.

 

[magothy1]

Tons of good advice here. My most consistent bullet thru several .25-06's has been the older model Sierra 100 gr flat base, 1620 is the Sierra number. For powder for accuracy for me it's been 4831. Good luck.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Browning Boss specifications and settings for Sweet Spots with the BOSS Mechanism are as follows:
117 Fed-6.0
100 Hornady-3.5
85 Ballistic Tip-2.6

Try these with your BOSS settings and range a little on both sides and you should find a sweet spot?

 

[ElmerThud]

These loads are middle of the road in relation to the published min/max. They are the most accurate in my rifle. The problem I have is as I run the charge up I lose accuracy. IMR 4350 at book max with the 115s shoots a cool 4 MOA. H4831 tightens it up to 3.4 MOA at max. Same story with 110 ABs and 85 BTips.

I have never had a rifle that is 3/4 MOA when you find a node but shoots all over the paper otherwise. I would love to have a rifle capable of hunting over 100 yards;-)

When you increased the propellant load toward 'book max', did you do so in stages?
(I presume so)
On the way to the max did you also change bullet seating depth or keep it the same?
(presume you kept it the same)
Did you find any load that produced a tighter group?
(if you did, that would be the point to then start playing with bullet seating depth & begin fine tuning)
If you didn't gain any advantage, I'd suggest a propellant change - probably to something running a bit slower.

I have found there can normally be several 'sweet spot' nodes with regard to seating depth but the 25-06 can be fussy and as I've said, mine didn't show any immediate liking for the heavier bullet weights & even the 110gn AB gave me some trouble.
However, I have no need or use for a bullet heavier than 110gn, so I didn't try very hard with 115,117 or 120gn bullets.

Stick at it and get to experimenting with brass that you've prepared to be as identical to each other as you can. I'd avoid neck sizing, find your correct headspace and set your full length die to that h/s setting....within .002". If it needs it, freshly anneal the cases to help get consistent pressure seals in the breech. Every little brass prep advantage you can get helps.
Good luck.

 

[frankm]

If you've read much stuff or followed the OCW (Optimum Charge Weight) theory for tuning and accuracy the basic rule is between the low node, medium node and high node there's a 3% increase in propellant charge between each node. If you go up 1.5% then you're at the 'scatter node'.... all that said you would need to work up cautiously to make certain you can meet the next node without hitting excessive pressure.

Something that might be helpful.

 

[joelkdouglas]

ksubuck, I had the same thing happen to me with H4831 and the 110 AccuBond. The Nosler manual says max charge us 51 grains for 3131 fps. However, the Berger manual lists a max charge of around 54.5 grains H4831 with the 115 VLD for close to the same velocity. I realize different bullets generate different pressures, but I thought that was quite a difference.

Long story short, I loaded up to 3130 fps with the 110 AB and H4831. It took 54 grains. I loaded up to 56 grains with no pressure signs.

If I were you I would take your chrono and load up carefully to 3050 fps due to your lost barrel length. Watch for pressure signs, and if you do this in cold weather repeat the procedure in hot weather to make sure your rifle doesn't blow up in hot weather. That's just what I would do, as I have come to think that velocity is the best indicator of pressure, and low velocities mean low pressure.

 

[Dicko]

Try RL22, RL25 and Retumbo.

JD338

I run Re25 behind the 120gn Speer Hot Cor and get around 3200fps out of a factory Hawkeyes barrel.

Might be 50fps slower, I can't remember off the top of my head.


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[ksubuck]

Been out of the loop with an unexpected football game in Dallas last month and a fixation with the close of the recruiting season. I am a huge college football fanatic. Figure it is time to pick this back up.

Through my continued investigation, the Nosler data looks pretty anemic compared to other sources. Retumbo was still short 300fps and didn't group all that well. Forgot to pick up some factory rounds to test Wisconsinteachers thought, which I think is a great idea. Will do that soon.

Anyway. I came into a large supply of IMR 7828 at 15 bucks a pound. Was wondering if someone could QL that for me using the 110g AccuBond. Also looking for H4831 QL if that would work. Thanks in advance

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have almost always loaded above what the newer Nosler Manual suggests. Manual number four had hotter loads.

 

[1Shot]

What we all need to understand is a loading manual is just a GUIDE. It does not relate what will happen in YOUR rifle. I have had rifles that you could not get close to a max load from most manuals and I have had rifles that you needed to go beyond max listed loads to achieve the proper pressure for accuracy, case expansion etc. I have been loading for over 35 years and loading the 25-06 for over 20 years and have found that for them to shoot their best they need to be running right at MAX for each individual rifle.

 

[Vince]

What we all need to understand is a loading manual is just a GUIDE. It does not relate what will happen in YOUR rifle. I have had rifles that you could not get close to a max load from most manuals and I have had rifles that you needed to go beyond max listed loads to achieve the proper pressure for accuracy, case expansion etc. I have been loading for over 35 years and loading the 25-06 for over 20 years and have found that for them to shoot their best they need to be running right at MAX for each individual rifle.

Max for one rifle is not likely the same for another rifle even two made the same day side by side.

Try to load a book max load in my 25-06 and you'll have a stuck bolt at the minimum. That's why they call it, "load workup".

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[ksubuck]

Started working on this rifle again today.

First, per Wisconsinteachers idea, I did some chrono work with factory ammo. I used some cheap hornady ammo which listed 2990fps muzzle velocity. In my rifle, it ran 2725.

I then cross checked the chrono with a known load on another rifle and was within 15fps.

Then, I ran some new loads of 115 BTips over H4831 working up from 51.0 to 53.5g, which goes 1.5g over Nosler book max. I did see a 1 inch group out of the 53.5g. Absolutely no pressure signs.

I plan to chrono the 53.5, and then work slowly up another 1.5g.

 

[Guy Miner]

Hornady ammo is usually pretty good stuff.

What bullet weight? 2725 fps is pretty doggone low for a .25-06 velocity...

Guy