280 Ackley powders choices...

[Ridgerunner665]

Been studying this during my downtime for several days now...I know Reloder 22 is a popular choice but I'd really rather avoid it if I can...had a bad experience using it, nothing that got anybody hurt...but bad enough that I learned my lesson! I tend towards pretty warm loads most of the time...I don't need an inconsistent powder.

MRP is supposedly a good alternative, pretty much the same powder some say...but more consistent and not as fussy on hot days.

IMR 7828 ssc...decent velocity, not supposed to be as contrary as RL22 on hot days, but does show some temp sensitivity.

H4831 (sc)...I really, really like Hodgdens Extreme powders...they do work as advertised, at least to a far greater degree than other powders...I have noticed they often post very slightly faster speeds in COLD temps (never more than 25 fps on average)...but, 4831 might not get me the speed I'm looking for with 168 grain ABLR's.

H1000...never used it....Hodgdens data hows it giving better speed than most their other offering in the 280AI...I have no idea of its accuracy potential.

Retumbo...Gives good velocity according to Hodgden online data...the best of the Hodgden choices (2,830 fps, 24" barrel)...but again, no idea of its accuracy potential.

Any experience you have that you can share that might be of some help would be appreciated....I'm looking to get around 2,850 fps with Nosler 168 grain ABLR bullets...I'd like to do it with an Extreme powder if at all possible....they have been very good to me since I started using them (H322 in 45-70, H4350 in 30-06, 270 and 243, Varget in 308)...I didn't just drink the Kool Aid...they won me over on the range.

 

[JD338]

RL22 is THE powder for the 280AI

JD338

 

[Ridgerunner665]

RL22 is THE powder for the 280AI

JD338

I knew you were gonna say that :grin:

 

[nvbroncrider]

I've run all mine with 7828SSC 28" tube 3160 for a 160 AB so in a 24" you should be around 3050. I have been happy with accuracy too.

With the 168's I think 2950 is very attainable.

175's I'm pushing at 2850.

 

[.300winmag]

I use a lot of H-1000, with 215, 210 and 180 grain bullets in .300 win mag and have had great results with it! I would give it a try in the .280 AI. however, I think with a 24" barrel, H-4831SC may be a better choice. I too avoid RL-22 after a bad experience.

 

[DrMike]

Looks as if you have quite a few that will work well.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Nosler AccuBond LR 58623 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 63.519 grain H2O = 4.124 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

22 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-25 109.7 63.9 4.14 2981 100.0 64000 11991 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 101.6 62.1 4.02 2980 100.0 64000 12480 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 103.4 61.9 4.01 2978 99.0 64000 12896 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 103.7 64.5 4.18 2971 98.0 64000 13003 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 107.9 61.4 3.98 2966 99.2 64000 12461 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 102.1 61.4 3.98 2966 99.2 64000 12461 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 103.7 61.4 3.98 2953 99.8 64000 12352 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 106.5 61.7 4.00 2952 99.7 64000 12374 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 110.0 67.9 4.40 2946 95.1 57652 13907 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 103.4 65.9 4.27 2935 100.0 64000 11774 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 110.0 64.4 4.17 2928 99.2 59612 12776 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 110.0 70.8 4.59 2921 95.2 56952 13715 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 91.1 56.0 3.63 2911 100.0 64000 10982 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 100.5 58.8 3.81 2909 99.7 64000 11774 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 96.0 58.1 3.76 2898 100.0 64000 11305 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 90.7 56.2 3.64 2897 100.0 64000 11356 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 90.7 56.2 3.64 2897 100.0 64000 11356 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 105.8 60.2 3.90 2887 98.6 64000 11666 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 101.7 60.2 3.90 2887 98.6 64000 11666 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 95.4 57.7 3.74 2886 99.6 64000 11476 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 92.9 55.6 3.60 2874 100.0 64000 10951 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 95.5 55.3 3.59 2873 100.0 64000 10808 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 110.0 63.7 4.13 2871 98.8 58820 11994 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 94.6 55.4 3.59 2868 100.0 64000 10755 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 99.1 61.2 3.96 2863 99.6 64000 11192 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 105.9 61.4 3.98 2857 99.9 64000 10963 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 103.7 60.7 3.93 2856 100.0 64000 10833 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 100.2 56.2 3.64 2855 100.0 64000 10571 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 98.1 56.2 3.64 2846 99.9 64000 10812 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 96.3 56.1 3.63 2845 99.9 64000 10786 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 106.0 59.5 3.86 2843 99.0 64000 11024 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 98.0 55.5 3.60 2827 100.0 64000 9963 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 90.4 53.7 3.48 2826 99.9 64000 10656 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 90.6 55.3 3.59 2782 99.9 64000 10082 1.197 ! Near Maximum !

Velocity will not be a problem when using a slower powder.

 

[EOD Diver]

ALCON,
Greetings from Germany. Things have been crazy getting here, but glad to be boots on ground and we are loving the German beer. Anyway, back to the topic at hand! RL22 didn't work out for me in the kimber 280ai, but I found nice loads with 7828ssc and a full tilt load of Magpro under the 150 ABLR. Can't testify as to their temperature stability, but each were more accurate than RL 22 in my rifle. Haven't clocked the speeds, but am leaning towards the 7828 load as it seems a little easier on the brass.
Take Care Friends,
Joe

 

[DrMike]

Good to see you posting, Joe. Great to hear you are still going strong. Oorah!

 

[EOD Diver]

Thank you friend. I'm starting to have rifle withdrawal and am a little worried, as we're only a week into our stay here.
Joe

 

[DrMike]

I can see how that would be a true hardship. Has the Navy begun to provide hardship pay for rifle loonies compelled to go through withdrawal?

 

[EOD Diver]

Ha! No time soon I'm afraid.

 

[Woodycreek]

Ha! No time soon I'm afraid.

Hang tough! Range time withdrawals suck. Ramstein was a decent base and Stuttgart was fun :mrgreen:

 

[Ridgerunner665]

DrMike,

If you would please, run Retumbo and H1000 on QuickLoad for me...168 grain ABLR, 24" barrel...I'm sorry to keep asking you this, and I ordered QuickLoad last night, but I won't be home to make use of it for a few more weeks...figured I was gonna need it, as the available 280 AI load data is all over the map as far as consistency goes...Noslers data looks to be the best available, but limited powders tested.

Run it on 3.34" for the over all cartridge length...not sure what that does to the usable case capacity...use your best judgement....if you think that change will screw up the results just run it on 3.30"...

Thank You

 

[DrMike]

No problem, RR. I'm glad to run a projection when I'm able to do so.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Nosler AccuBond LR 58623
Useable Case Capaci: 63.677 grain H2O = 4.134 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 90 52.24 2284 1946 30642 9587 88.3 1.622
-18.0 92 53.55 2348 2057 32901 9936 89.9 1.576
-16.0 94 54.85 2413 2172 35341 10271 91.4 1.531
-14.0 97 56.16 2479 2292 37982 10590 92.9 1.483
-12.0 99 57.46 2545 2416 40845 10891 94.2 1.432
-10.0 101 58.77 2612 2544 43954 11171 95.4 1.382
-08.0 103 60.08 2679 2676 47333 11429 96.5 1.334
-06.0 106 61.38 2746 2812 51016 11661 97.4 1.288
-04.0 108 62.69 2813 2952 55036 11866 98.2 1.243
-02.0 110 63.99 2881 3096 59429 12041 98.9 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 112 65.30 2948 3243 64253 12185 99.4 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 115 66.61 3016 3393 69552 12295 99.7 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 117 67.91 3084 3547 75396 12370 99.9 1.079 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 119 69.22 3151 3704 81858 12407 100.0 1.041 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 121 70.52 3218 3864 89028 12427 100.0 1.004 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 124 71.83 3285 4027 97019 12439 100.0 0.969 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 112 65.30 3093 3568 78570 11659 100.0 1.067 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 112 65.30 2741 2802 51912 11952 93.5 1.277


You will be hard pressed to get Retumbo in to maximum charge. About the best you can hope for with a stick powder is ~114%, and Retumbo runs up to 115%.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Nosler AccuBond LR 58623
Useable Case Capaci: 63.677 grain H2O = 4.134 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 92 54.40 2300 1974 29248 10375 91.6 1.653
-18.0 94 55.76 2367 2090 31394 10747 93.2 1.607
-16.0 97 57.12 2435 2211 33717 11095 94.8 1.561
-14.0 99 58.48 2502 2336 36231 11415 96.1 1.517
-12.0 101 59.84 2571 2465 38956 11705 97.3 1.466
-10.0 104 61.20 2639 2598 41913 11962 98.2 1.415
-08.0 106 62.56 2708 2735 45127 12182 99.0 1.365
-06.0 108 63.92 2776 2874 48627 12363 99.5 1.318
-04.0 111 65.28 2844 3017 52443 12502 99.9 1.272
-02.0 113 66.64 2912 3162 56614 12598 100.0 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 115 68.00 2979 3309 61180 12664 100.0 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 118 69.36 3045 3459 66193 12724 100.0 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 120 70.72 3111 3611 71708 12778 100.0 1.103 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 122 72.08 3177 3766 77796 12825 100.0 1.064 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 124 73.44 3243 3923 84536 12865 100.0 1.026 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 127 74.80 3309 4084 92020 12897 100.0 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 115 68.00 3120 3632 76202 12056 100.0 1.084 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 115 68.00 2759 2839 48703 12897 96.5 1.315


Would it be possible to work with some other powders?

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Nosler AccuBond LR 58623
Useable Case Capaci: 63.677 grain H2O = 4.134 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

22 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-25 109.6 64.0 4.15 2982 100.0 64000 12015 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 101.5 62.2 4.03 2981 100.0 64000 12503 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 103.3 62.0 4.02 2979 99.0 64000 12923 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 103.6 64.6 4.19 2971 98.0 64000 13030 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 107.8 61.5 3.99 2967 99.3 64000 12488 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 102.0 61.5 3.99 2967 99.3 64000 12488 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 103.6 61.5 3.98 2954 99.8 64000 12377 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 106.4 61.8 4.00 2953 99.7 64000 12398 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 110.0 68.1 4.41 2950 95.1 57851 13951 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 103.3 66.0 4.28 2936 100.0 64000 11798 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 110.0 64.6 4.18 2931 99.2 59825 12809 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 110.0 71.0 4.60 2925 95.3 57153 13758 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 91.0 56.1 3.63 2911 100.0 64000 11004 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 100.4 58.9 3.82 2910 99.7 64000 11798 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 95.9 58.1 3.77 2899 100.0 64000 11327 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 90.6 56.3 3.65 2898 100.0 64000 11378 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 90.6 56.3 3.65 2898 100.0 64000 11378 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 105.7 60.3 3.91 2888 98.6 64000 11692 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 101.6 60.3 3.91 2888 98.6 64000 11692 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 95.3 57.8 3.74 2887 99.6 64000 11500 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 92.8 55.6 3.61 2875 100.0 64000 10973 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 110.0 63.9 4.14 2874 98.8 58992 12026 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 95.5 55.4 3.59 2874 100.0 64000 10830 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 94.6 55.5 3.60 2868 100.0 64000 10777 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 99.0 61.3 3.97 2864 99.7 64000 11216 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 105.8 61.5 3.98 2858 99.9 64000 10986 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 103.6 60.8 3.94 2857 100.0 64000 10854 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 100.1 56.3 3.65 2856 100.0 64000 10592 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 98.0 56.3 3.65 2847 99.9 64000 10835 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 96.2 56.2 3.64 2846 99.9 64000 10809 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 105.9 59.6 3.86 2844 99.1 64000 11048 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 98.0 55.6 3.60 2828 100.0 64000 9984 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 90.3 53.8 3.48 2827 99.9 64000 10678 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 90.5 55.4 3.59 2783 99.9 64000 10104 1.197 ! Near Maximum !

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Thank You...

Yep...Retumbo is just too slow, so its out of the running...

H1000 isn't as good as it seems it should be, supposed to be pretty close in burn speed to Ramshot Magnum...but it isn't projecting near the speed.

I'm sorta stuck between Ramshot Magnum and MRP...the more I read about MRP the better it sounds but I wish I could find more info on Magnum in the 280AI...some people have tried it, claimed good velocity but not great accuracy...but every barrel is its own critter.

Can't wait to get my QuickLoad...

 

[DrMike]

You'll enjoy QL when you get it. My experience with Magnum mirrors what you say others claim. The powder tends to give me good velocities, but accuracy is hit or miss.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Rl25, magpro, and 7828 all look pretty decent.

Ill tell ya H1000 is a helluva great and consistent powder. Ive used a lot of it over the years and it isnt always the fastest, but its very accurate and gives low ES and as you know and like, its not bothered much by temperature and lot to lot consistency isnt horrible either.

kinda one those things where in your case you might look at all the other benefits it has versus the 75fps loss in velocity.

For instance, I can reach 3250fps easy in my 7-300 win mag with 160s and a few different other powders then H1000 at 3150-3175fps but ill take consistent 3/8-1/2 MOA and single digit ES anyday. It was a one powder/bullet load workup that took all of about 10 shots.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm probably gonna try it...

 

[Ridgerunner665]

My Quick Load disc arrived at the house today...can't wait to get my hands on that in a few weeks.

 

[Dwh7271]

I got mine a little while back and have lost myself for a bunch of time playing around with Quickload. It's interesting to mess around with various loads.
I did have to raise my hand for help once but as usual, one of the guys here helped a bunch.