30-06 BAR 18.5" barrel Oryx 180

[Chesty Puller]

Hello forum, I have a few question on the loading of my BAR which was made in factory with 18.5" barrel on a short run for LL COTE. My plan is to load the 180gr Oryx bullet. First off I would like to thank you alls in advance and introduce myself as I've learned alot here reading posts and collecting knowledge before I started reloading but have never posted. For the past few years I've been, studying, watching videos, collecting material and equipment, and succesfully loaded my bolt action 7rem mag and 300wsm this past fall. I was a machinist and currently a millwright so picking up reloading was fairly easy as alot is about measuring, consistansy, and paying attention, however still new to it and learning. I love shooting so much that it hurts, as I learned this fall developing my 300wsm 200gr loads with no break haha ouch.
I plan on full lenth sizing for BAR with a .003-.004 bump on shoulder. I have H4350, RS Hunter, N560, IMR 4350, Hybrid100, N165, Acurate 4350 I am leaning toward the Hunter but am very open to any suggestions or data. Bullet and brass will be Norma Oryx 180gr and Nosler brass.

1.) Is the chamber generally short in a BAR?, I ask this because the case lenth on once fired nosler AB 180gr factory was under saami after firing 2.469 case OAL (saami calls for 2.474-2.494) and also the shoulder only grew .005.

2.) Does something happen during firing a semi auto which would cause the case to smash? And should I just trim to the under saami spec 2.469 like the cases on once fired? Ask this for same reason above.

3.) Has anybody loaded a BAR, and even better with an Oryx 180 gr bullet? Advise welcome.

4.) Will the short barrel and being semi auto change what powder I can and should not use?

5.) How much of a pain in the ass would it be if I asked somebody to do a quickload for me is it?

Like I said thank you guys so much, and nice to meet you. Hope you can help. Let me know if I can help you help me. Sorry for the long read. Chesty

 

[SJB358]

So welcome aboard! Dig the call sign!

When I loaded for my dad’s 30-06 BAR I treated it as any bolt rifle. They aren’t weak and will take whatever you throw at them. I loaded 180 ABs with H4350 and RL16. Any normal powder for the 180 in the 06 will work fine.

Case dents in the mouth happen during the violent ejection process. Doesn’t horribly hurt anything. But it is unsightly.

Don’t sweat the short barrel, you just won’t get as much speed from it.

As far as chambers. Who knows, sounds like you have a min spec chamber which is what I’d prefer if given a choice. Bump the shoulders as you mentioned 2-4 thou and you’ll be in great shape.

I’m away from my computer this second but if I get back to it before another gets it I’ll run some numbers. Good luck. Scotty B

 

[Chesty Puller]

So welcome aboard! Dig the call sign!

When I loaded for my dad’s 30-06 BAR I treated it as any bolt rifle. They aren’t weak and will take whatever you throw at them. I loaded 180 ABs with H4350 and RL16. Any normal powder for the 180 in the 06 will work fine.

Case dents in the mouth happen during the violent ejection process. Doesn’t horribly hurt anything. But it is unsightly.

Don’t sweat the short barrel, you just won’t get as much speed from it.

As far as chambers. Who knows, sounds like you have a min spec chamber which is what I’d prefer if given a choice. Bump the shoulders as you mentioned 2-4 thou and you’ll be in great shape.

I’m away from my computer this second but if I get back to it before another gets it I’ll run some numbers. Good luck. Scotty B

10-4 Scotty, AB factorys worked good out of mine as well and may go that route as well if Oryx no bueno. Appreitate that intel.

 

[JD338]

Welcome to the forum.
Scotty covered it all. Keep us posted with your load development and ping us if you have any questions.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

10-4 Scotty, AB factorys worked good out of mine as well and may go that route as well if Oryx no bueno. Appreitate that intel.

For sure. AB's went around 2700 from my old mans gun with RL16 and about 50 less with H4350. If I was looking to do it again, I'd probably do just about the same thing. The Oryx's are really cool bullets though, but then most bullets Norma makes are pretty good.

What was the QL you were looking for Chesty?

 

[Chesty Puller]

For sure. AB's went around 2700 from my old mans gun with RL16 and about 50 less with H4350. If I was looking to do it again, I'd probably do just about the same thing. The Oryx's are really cool bullets though, but then most bullets Norma makes are pretty good.

What was the QL you were looking for Chesty?

30-06 180gr Oryx with With Ramshot Hunter or H4350. All I have in large rifle primer is Remington. But do have lot of magnum primer options if that is better.

 

[Chesty Puller]

Welcome to the forum.
Scotty covered it all. Keep us posted with your load development and ping us if you have any questions.

JD338

Will do thank you.

 

[michsteve]

I have a lot of Nosler and Norma bullets the Oryx is very good bullet. In my 30/06s I have used RS Hunter very well with magnum primers since it is ball powder. My other powders were RE17 and Staball 6.5 all work well with the 06 it us not a picky caliber. Right now I'm in a blind with my W70 feather weight 30/06 using some Norma 180 Alaskan round nose bullets. I have not shot a deer yet with this particular bullet .

 

[Chesty Puller]

Welcome to the forum.
Scotty covered it all. Keep us posted with your load development and ping us if you have any questions.

JD338

Will do thank you

I have a lot of Nosler and Norma bullets the Oryx is very good bullet. In my 30/06s I have used RS Hunter very well with magnum primers since it is ball powder. My other powders were RE17 and Staball 6.5 all work well with the 06 it us not a picky caliber. Right now I'm in a blind with my W70 feather weight 30/06 using some Norma 180 Alaskan round nose bullets. I have not shot a deer yet with this particular bullet .

Good luck out there. I love the model 70 action I have an extreme weather ss in 300wsm love it. I would like to try some Alliant powders but first I must hit the lottery lol.

 

[SJB358]

Looks like both of them will do 2500-2600 pretty easily without standing on anything too hard with the 180 Norma's.


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Norma ORYX 67638
Useable Case Capaci: 61.664 grain H2O = 4.004 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.181% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-01.8 100 58.91 2611 2724 55584 13422 97.2 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 101 59.02 2616 2735 55925 13446 97.2 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 101 59.13 2621 2746 56266 13469 97.3 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 101 59.24 2626 2756 56613 13492 97.4 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 101 59.35 2631 2767 56960 13515 97.4 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 101 59.46 2636 2778 57306 13538 97.5 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 101 59.57 2642 2789 57662 13560 97.6 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 102 59.67 2647 2800 58012 13583 97.6 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 102 59.78 2652 2811 58374 13605 97.7 1.002 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 102 59.89 2657 2822 58732 13627 97.7 0.999 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 60.00 2662 2833 59095 13649 97.8 0.996 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 102 60.11 2667 2844 59458 13670 97.9 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 103 60.22 2672 2854 59825 13692 97.9 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.5 103 60.33 2678 2865 60196 13713 98.0 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 103 60.43 2683 2876 60566 13734 98.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 103 60.54 2688 2888 60941 13755 98.1 0.982 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 60.00 2797 3126 71352 13467 100.0 0.919 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 60.00 2483 2464 47762 13073 91.1 1.095


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Norma ORYX 67638
Useable Case Capaci: 61.664 grain H2O = 4.004 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.189% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-01.9 101 56.41 2544 2586 55321 12459 95.4 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 102 56.52 2549 2596 55651 12484 95.5 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
-01.5 102 56.63 2554 2607 55983 12508 95.6 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 102 56.74 2559 2617 56317 12533 95.6 1.021 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 102 56.85 2564 2627 56653 12557 95.7 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 102 56.96 2569 2638 56992 12581 95.8 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 103 57.07 2574 2648 57332 12605 95.9 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
-00.6 103 57.17 2579 2658 57675 12630 96.0 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 103 57.28 2584 2669 58019 12654 96.0 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 103 57.39 2589 2679 58366 12677 96.1 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 103 57.50 2594 2690 58715 12701 96.2 1.002 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 104 57.61 2599 2700 59066 12724 96.2 0.999 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 104 57.72 2604 2710 59419 12748 96.3 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.6 104 57.83 2609 2721 59775 12771 96.4 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.8 104 57.93 2614 2731 60133 12794 96.5 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 104 58.04 2619 2742 60493 12817 96.5 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 57.50 2721 2958 69242 12768 99.6 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 57.50 2432 2364 48419 12073 89.2 1.093

 

[Chesty Puller]

Looks like both of them will do 2500-2600 pretty easily without standing on anything too hard with the 180 Norma's.


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Norma ORYX 67638
Useable Case Capaci: 61.664 grain H2O = 4.004 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.181% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-01.8 100 58.91 2611 2724 55584 13422 97.2 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 101 59.02 2616 2735 55925 13446 97.2 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 101 59.13 2621 2746 56266 13469 97.3 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 101 59.24 2626 2756 56613 13492 97.4 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 101 59.35 2631 2767 56960 13515 97.4 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 101 59.46 2636 2778 57306 13538 97.5 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 101 59.57 2642 2789 57662 13560 97.6 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 102 59.67 2647 2800 58012 13583 97.6 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 102 59.78 2652 2811 58374 13605 97.7 1.002 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 102 59.89 2657 2822 58732 13627 97.7 0.999 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 60.00 2662 2833 59095 13649 97.8 0.996 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 102 60.11 2667 2844 59458 13670 97.9 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 103 60.22 2672 2854 59825 13692 97.9 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.5 103 60.33 2678 2865 60196 13713 98.0 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 103 60.43 2683 2876 60566 13734 98.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 103 60.54 2688 2888 60941 13755 98.1 0.982 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 60.00 2797 3126 71352 13467 100.0 0.919 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 60.00 2483 2464 47762 13073 91.1 1.095


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Norma ORYX 67638
Useable Case Capaci: 61.664 grain H2O = 4.004 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.189% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-01.9 101 56.41 2544 2586 55321 12459 95.4 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 102 56.52 2549 2596 55651 12484 95.5 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
-01.5 102 56.63 2554 2607 55983 12508 95.6 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 102 56.74 2559 2617 56317 12533 95.6 1.021 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 102 56.85 2564 2627 56653 12557 95.7 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 102 56.96 2569 2638 56992 12581 95.8 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 103 57.07 2574 2648 57332 12605 95.9 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
-00.6 103 57.17 2579 2658 57675 12630 96.0 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 103 57.28 2584 2669 58019 12654 96.0 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 103 57.39 2589 2679 58366 12677 96.1 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 103 57.50 2594 2690 58715 12701 96.2 1.002 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 104 57.61 2599 2700 59066 12724 96.2 0.999 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 104 57.72 2604 2710 59419 12748 96.3 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.6 104 57.83 2609 2721 59775 12771 96.4 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.8 104 57.93 2614 2731 60133 12794 96.5 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 104 58.04 2619 2742 60493 12817 96.5 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 57.50 2721 2958 69242 12768 99.6 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 57.50 2432 2364 48419 12073 89.2 1.093

Very cool! Thank you only data I found for the Hunter powder was on sierra site with the 180gr. 2600 would work for sure its my timber pounder.

 

[SJB358]

Very cool! Thank you only data I found for the Hunter powder was on sierra site with the 180gr. 2600 would work for sure its my timber pounder.

Oh I'd say so. The 180 RN has a cult following up here in the NE for killing deer like a flyswatter. Bet it is quite handy as well!

 

[Chesty Puller]

I will be seating some bullets tonight, try the Hunter powder first then range tomorrow. Not any big hurry but I will keep you all posted.

 

[SJB358]

Good luck. We all like pictures.

 

[PJGunner]

I'm afraid I can't be of mch help. I'm not even sure I've shot my 7MM em. Mag. amd I don't own a .300 WSM. I did however do the load work up for my son in law's M70 Featherweight in .300 WSM. but he wanted to use IMR4831 and the 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets that was suggested to him by a coworker. After getting that done I sat him down and taught him how to do it himself and gave him my notes for the work up.
I do shoot a .300 Win. Mag. though and prefer the 200 gr. bullets for use in that rifle. I can run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core or Nosler Partition at right around 2880 FPS and it reaches out and touches elk very nicely.
Paul B.

 

[Chesty Puller]

I'm afraid I can't be of mch help. I'm not even sure I've shot my 7MM em. Mag. amd I don't own a .300 WSM. I did however do the load work up for my son in law's M70 Featherweight in .300 WSM. but he wanted to use IMR4831 and the 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets that was suggested to him by a coworker. After getting that done I sat him down and taught him how to do it himself and gave him my notes for the work up.
I do shoot a .300 Win. Mag. though and prefer the 200 gr. bullets for use in that rifle. I can run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core or Nosler Partition at right around 2880 FPS and it reaches out and touches elk very nicely.
Paul B.

I'm good on my bolt actions, loaded those in the fall, working on the BAR in 30-06 with the Oryx bullet. Gonna use it for spring bear if I draw and the 7mag for longer shots.

 

[Chesty Puller]

Update chamber is pretty short. To jam Im seeing 3.315 as max bullet lenth available on the oryx or 2.791 with hornady 30 cal bullet comparator.
Going to start with 54.5 gr H4350 powder and CCI large rifle magnum primers. Start seating .020 off my version of jam. From there I plan to work up powder and fine turn seat last. Any thought? My thinking is Scotty has had good results with h4350 out of the bar and will give me a touch more room to work than the Hunter powder.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Welcome. As you have found out there are lots of folks here who are glad to help. Good advice has already been given so I'll throw in my limited experience loading for the BAR.
Loaded for a friend's Bar using Sierra 180gr Game Kings with H4895, RP case and Winchester LR primer. He hunts in an area that 175-200, is long shot, mostly around 100 yds so he wasn't concerned with velocity loss comparing mid-range powder to slower burning powders. He also wanted to eat up to the hole, less meat loss. That load functioned fine in his rifle, killed deer and he is happy. Also, I just full length sized the cases, trimmed to minimum length and seated bullets well off the lands. Don't recall all the data as he has it. Having said all this, what you're doing sounds good and I'm sure will give good results. Keep us posted. Dan.

 

[Chesty Puller]

Welcome. As you have found out there are lots of folks here who are glad to help. Good advice has already been given so I'll throw in my limited experience loading for the BAR.
Loaded for a friend's Bar using Sierra 180gr Game Kings with H4895, RP case and Winchester LR primer. He hunts in an area that 175-200, is long shot, mostly around 100 yds so he wasn't concerned with velocity loss comparing mid-range powder to slower burning powders. He also wanted to eat up to the hole, less meat loss. That load functioned fine in his rifle, killed deer and he is happy. Also, I just full length sized the cases, trimmed to minimum length and seated bullets well off the lands. Don't recall all the data as he has it. Having said all this, what you're doing sounds good and I'm sure will give good results. Keep us posted. Dan.

Nice to meet you Dan, that helps and I'm glad you joined the conversation. I seated some last night. I ended up seating back .030 as I went a little to deep for .020. Mag has about .050-.070 clearance and chambered fine with 1 rd in and out. I too trimmed to minimum. Its pretty nasty out today so I will be going to the county range with cover and golf cart. I have four 3 shot groups to run and will post some results tonight most likely. Even if they are ugly haha. I actually have a good feeling one of the groups will shoot well and have a good feeling about this combo all together. Groups are all seated as mentioned above at .030. All group with H4350 starting with 54gr and moving up to 55.5 today. If I find no pressure will move up slow from there with 5 shot groups next weekend.

 

[RL338]

Nice to meet you Dan, that helps and I'm glad you joined the conversation. I seated some last night. I ended up seating back .030 as I went a little to deep for .020. Mag has about .050-.070 clearance and chambered fine with 1 rd in and out. I too trimmed to minimum. Its pretty nasty out today so I will be going to the county range with cover and golf cart. I have four 3 shot groups to run and will post some results tonight most likely. Even if they are ugly haha. I actually have a good feeling one of the groups will shoot well and have a good feeling about this combo all together. Groups are all seated as mentioned above at .030. All group with H4350 starting with 54gr and moving up to 55.5 today. If I find no pressure will move up slow from there with 5 shot groups next weekend.

Hard to be H4350 in the 30-06 with mid weight bullets.