30/06 help

[HeathSexton]

I have been trying some 165gr bullets from my Ruger MKII 30/06 with IMR4350 and I have been unlucky at best. I have went from 56.5 to 58.5grs IMR4350 and I have gotten groups from 2"-5". How far off the lands do you guys recommend starting out? I started at .010" off and have went to .020" off.

Thanks

 

[JD338]

Heath,

I think its time to try a different powder!
Take a look at RL 22, H4350, IMR 4831. Seating the bullets .010-.020" off the lands is usually a good place to start.

What bullet are you working with? How does the rifle shoot with 150 gr and 180 gr bullets?
Could be that your rifle doesn't care much for a 165 gr bullet. Try some different powders.

JD338

 

[HeathSexton]

Thanks JD, I was really hoping the 165's would work.


I have H4831 and 180 NBT's and the 190 Hornady, if I use H4831 would I need a Mag Primer?

 

[YoteSmoker]

With my wife's 30-06, I loaded 165 Accubonds and 168 TTSX bullets each with IMR4350, IMR4064, and RL-22. The 168 TTSX grouped best with IMR4064 much to my surprise, however this was Barnes accuracy powder combo. Usually IMR4350 has worked well for me with Nosler 165 bullets, but just goes to prove that no rifle and bullet combo is created equal. Good luck get it figured out!

 

[JD338]

Use a large rifle primer, mag primers are not necessary.

JD338

 

[Murphdog]

I have a little experience loading for the 30-06 (ok 30 years worth) my first loads were 4350 with 180 grain partitions I don't remember the powder charge but it was book max at the time. In the late 80's I switched to RL 22 and have never looked back. RL 22 is going to give you about as much velocity as one can expect from a 30-06. I load a 165 grain ballistic tip at 62 grains of RL 22, Fed 210 primers, Winchester cases OAL of 3.335". It is very accurate in every rifle I have ever loaded it for. My meat in the freezer load is 180 grain Partition, 60 grains of RL 22, Winchester cases, Fed 210 primers and an OAL of 3.335". My Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather shot a three shot group of .450". It is a load that I have killed multiply elk, deer, bears, priarie goats, moose and even more than a few coyotes. At 75 yards it will break both shoulder on a bull elk (lodged in the off side shoulder blade) at 200 yards it will break the near side shoulder blade and lodge in the off side hide of a bull elk (missed the off side shoulder blade but went through the heavy shoulder muscle). The later bull made it 25 yards before going down the first bull got to his feet but was unable to travel easy coup de gras.

 

[hardpan]

Just some random thoughts.
Have you measured the velocity ? If the velocity is within 30-50 fps, then ignore this next piece of advice. Try crimping. It will help equalize the pressures and should help with controlling the velocity. it is pretty cheap (10-$15 for the die) and very quick.

I have used both 165s and 180s and had a hard time with grouping, but not with velocity. Last 5 shot group was about 1.5 inches, but the velocity differential was only 16 fps. So, powder burn was not the issue.

Best powder for me was imr 4350, and I used CCI large rifle primers. For me, imr 4350 turned out to be the right powder and around 2700 fps the right velocity. Took about 10 different loads and a lot of patience, and some gun cleaning.

I generally suspect the rifle, and the scope mounts as well. Be sure that the scope is not moving. Be sure that the barrel is not dirty. Ok to take a fouling shot, but not a season of fouling shots. Dirty barrels cause a lot of large groups. In general, you should get to a 1 inch group with a middle burn powder like 4350. H 4831 has worked well for me also.

Finally, if all else fails, try letting someone else shoot the gun to see if it is you. and if that fails, take the gun in and check it for pressure on the barrel. There are barrel tuners that do work... Here is a quick link.

http://www.rifle-accuracy.com/smartstock.htm
hardpan

 

[rick smith]

165gr bullet, WLR or 210M, 58.5-58.8grs IMR-4350. I have used that load in every 30/06 I work up loads for and it has not failed to produce. Factory or custom barrels. Tried various other powders over the years but always come back ro the above. Bought my first 06 about 1963, currently own seven and they all love IMR-4350.Rick.

 

[HeathSexton]

Thanks for the help guys. I have cleaned it completely and fired foulers before group testing twice now. I have also taken out some other rifles that I know are good shooters to be sure that it is not just me. I shot a 3" group with my 30/06 and picked up my .358 Win and fired a .483".

Right now I am using Win Brass and CCI 200's, partial full length sized and trimmed.

I am probably going to try some heavier bulets today.


Thanks again

 

[HeathSexton]

Ok guys, question time. I loaded up a few rounds today with the 165's, they are Rem Core-Lokts, I have forgot to include that every time for some reason. Anyways, the canalure is above the case mouth and when looking at the rounds there was a noticable difference in the cannalure location on one round. I put my Hornady comparator on it and it measured .011" shorter than the other two rounds. I took have handful of the bullets and measured them with the comparator, I am assuming this is on the ogive, from ogive to base of the bullets in a 10 bullet sample there was a .015" difference, I would think that would be a real problem? I measured 10 of the 190 Hornady bullets because they were handy, there was a .001" difference. You rekon that is some of my issues?

 

[DrMike]

Ok guys, question time. I loaded up a few rounds today with the 165's, they are Rem Core-Lokts, I have forgot to include that every time for some reason. Anyways, the canalure is above the case mouth and when looking at the rounds there was a noticable difference in the cannalure location on one round. I put my Hornady comparator on it and it measured .011" shorter than the other two rounds. I took have handful of the bullets and measured them with the comparator, I am assuming this is on the ogive, from ogive to base of the bullets in a 10 bullet sample there was a .015" difference, I would think that would be a real problem? I measured 10 of the 190 Hornady bullets because they were handy, there was a .001" difference. You rekon that is some of my issues?

Perhaps a major cause of your dilemma.

 

[JD338]

Heath,

More than likely, that is your problem. The 165 gr PSPCL is a hunting bullet so don't expect target accuracy with it. Try some 165 gr BT's. IMHO, if a rifle doesn't shoot good with the BT, there is usually some other issue with the rifle.

JD338

 

[6mm Remington]

Heath I would try some 165 gr. Accubonds or Partitions before I gave up on it completely. They usually aren't hard to find a load that works in most 30-06 rifles I have loaded for! I use IMR4350 with 57.4 grs., Winchester cases that are all trimmed to length and the primer pockets uniformed, Federal large rifle primers or CCi large rifle primers. IMR4350 seems to be a really excellent powder for the 30-06 so I'd make sure scope mount screws and base screws are all tight and the action screws are good and snug. If it's a wood stocked rifle has the barrel channel warped enough that it's causing some pressure points on the barrel or uneven contact points? Has the rifle been glass bedded and/or pillar bedded? I'm a firm believer in that with wood stocks. Hope that helps.

David

 

[Murphdog]

Amen on JD's post, I have yet to see a 30-06 that did not like the 165 BT's. Also check the scope, there have been a lot of rifles/loads that have been wrongly accused of bad accuracy due to crappy scopes.

 

[HeathSexton]

Synthetic stock that has been floated, Ruger rings, lapped and everything tight, Leupold M8 4x long tube.


Just fired a group with 55grs IMR4350 and the 180NBT, two touching and one 2" away straight left. I seated them .005" deeper in the case @ .015" off and fired another 3 shot group after a good cool down. The 2nd group was 3" with one high right, dead on but way left and one low. I moved the next ones to .020" off and am waiting to fire them.


Fixing to start on a can of H4831, after that I am using it as a tomato stake.

 

[HeathSexton]

.020" off was two touching and one about 1" away. Loaded 3 more @ 55.0grs imr4350 @ .025" off, happpiness may have been achieved. I am going back out to retest but the 3 shot group went .63".


Thanks for the help.

 

[JD338]

Heath,

You are almost there buddy. Way to hang in there!
The old bench rest trick when 2 touch and 1 is out is to turn in the seater 1/4 turn and reshoot. It might take a few tries but it will tighten up. You are on the right track.

Let us know your results.

JD338

 

[6mm Remington]

Heath,

Good job. Sounds like you are there! Now try the same load with everything the same except for using a 180 gr. AccuBond and you will have a bullet as accurate (hopefully) and one quite a bit tougher for elk, bear, moose, and other heavier game. The BT is a good bullet, but I'm sure sold on the Accubonds! :grin:

 

[HeathSexton]

I think it is about there. 2nd group was right at 1", but my brass is in need of annealing. It was not sizing down very good because of spring back I think. I am going to anneal and fire one more and see how it rolls.

 

[HeathSexton]

Cleaned the rifle good, fired a fouler and laid 3 into a .6 group center to center. I may try 55.5grs just to see, but I think this will do it.


Thanks for the help fellas, I was fixing to bury this thing in the yard!