I loaded up some 150 grain Sierra Pro Hunters in RP cases, BR2 primers and went up to 55 gr IMR 4320...the old Jack O'Connor load from his writings. This is in a 22" Mod 700 Mountain Rifle that seems to prefer lighter weights. I shot 3 rounds into a bug-hole group at 100, and primers were slightly flattened, but bolt lift was very easy. This was fired brass and all primers went in tight with hand primer. I didn't have chrono set up that day. Yesterday I was at the range, and sent the last 2 over the screens...3124 and 3127 each! Now, primers were just barely flat and bolt lift was very easy again. Even in a gusty wind they went .5" apart. This is not a plinking load of course, and I normally do not hunt with IMR powders anymore ( I prefer the Hogdon Extreme powders). I was just curious. Even taking into account different lots, this is anywhere from 1.5 to 2 gr over book max, depending upon manual. I know its a hot load, and if I did hunt with it, I would use new cases. Has anyone else ever played with or used this load in their '06? I have read of others who did and do and am just curious. Incidentally, my best 165 Speer BT load is 58gr H4350 for same bug-hole effect, 2830fps, also in RP cases/BR2. In Winchester cases, WLR, Sierra 165 BTHP and 58gr IMR 4350 does 2925, which is awesome! but around .75". Primers still rounded too. Even if it lost velocity in cold weather, if accuracy held up it would work on elk. Same cases, primer, powder gets 2650 with Winchester 180 Power Point and 55 grains. They went into about 1.3", which has been the best 180 grouping yet. I got about 1.5 with 57gr R22, WW case, BR2 with Nosler 180 PT but only 2450 fps. go figure. I plan on working with the Barnes 130 TTSX later on. I have yet to try H4831SC or H4350 with the Nosler 180 yet. Any suggestions or favorite recipes with this bullet and these two powders?
30-06 O'Connor load
- Thread starter preacher
- Start date
joelkdouglas
Handloader
- Jun 5, 2011
- 1,310
- 3
Preacher, I use 57.0 grains of H4350 with both the 180 Partition and the 180 AccuBond. I can get the Partition to shoot a bit better than the AccuBond, but both are sufficient for hunting. My chrono says the velocity is 2800 fps. The Partition seems to like being seated well off the lands in my rifle, the AccuBond a bit closer.
I've heard others write/say their 30-06 liked 60 or 61 grains of H4831 with 180s. I haven't given that load much try yet.
I've heard others write/say their 30-06 liked 60 or 61 grains of H4831 with 180s. I haven't given that load much try yet.
salmonchaser
Handloader
- Dec 13, 2013
- 4,876
- 4,585
I use 61.5 grains of RL 22 with the 180. No pressure, 2800 + and .7 moa at 300 yards.
preacher I mean no disrespect whatsoever in this post. But I think you are getting false readings from your chrono if these are indeed the readings you got on your last 2 rounds. Jack O’Connor was my shooting guru when I first started hunting & reloading. I have read just about every article he published in Outdoor Life from 1970 and most of his great books.
I also tried his 4320 load with the 150gr bullet and got nowhere the velocity you reported in a 22” barrel .30-06.
Several years ago I bought a new Chrony and clocked some .308 loads for my eldest son’s M1A .308 using either 147gr or 150gr Hornady fmj bullets loaded to a book vel of 2700. I got some readings I didn’t expect. Some were well over 3,000 fps. This sent up some “red flags” in my mind and then I remembered that the bullet was supposed to be about 4 or 5 inches over the timing lights. When I adjusted my aiming for this height I then started getting the velocity I had expected. I would try it again using 5 shots and average them out to what the velocity actually is. The velocities you report seem to be more in line with 125gr bullets.
I have some old manuals from Speer (#6 & #7). The #6 manual list for the 150gr bullet and 55gr of 4320 at 2998 fps out of a 24” barrel.
Happy Shooting
Ryan46
I also tried his 4320 load with the 150gr bullet and got nowhere the velocity you reported in a 22” barrel .30-06.
Several years ago I bought a new Chrony and clocked some .308 loads for my eldest son’s M1A .308 using either 147gr or 150gr Hornady fmj bullets loaded to a book vel of 2700. I got some readings I didn’t expect. Some were well over 3,000 fps. This sent up some “red flags” in my mind and then I remembered that the bullet was supposed to be about 4 or 5 inches over the timing lights. When I adjusted my aiming for this height I then started getting the velocity I had expected. I would try it again using 5 shots and average them out to what the velocity actually is. The velocities you report seem to be more in line with 125gr bullets.
I have some old manuals from Speer (#6 & #7). The #6 manual list for the 150gr bullet and 55gr of 4320 at 2998 fps out of a 24” barrel.
Happy Shooting
Ryan46
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
Preacher, I'm not surprised at the velocity from your 150 gr bullets.
As you know, you're 2 grains over Nosler's max. Their max load with IMR4320 goes 2940 fps, at 53 grains. I see no reason why you couldn't pull 3100+ fps with a couple more grains of powder.
Safe or not safe? Hmmmm. Often the .30-06 is held unreasonably to lower SAAMI pressures than other cartridges, even those based on the same case, but necked down.
Frankly, if you safely worked up to it, and it's working in your rifle, I sure don't have a problem with "bughole" groups and 3100+ fps from a hunting bullet...
I'm not that big a fan of standard 150 gr bullets from the .30-06, but it ought to be one heck of a deer load!
Guy
As you know, you're 2 grains over Nosler's max. Their max load with IMR4320 goes 2940 fps, at 53 grains. I see no reason why you couldn't pull 3100+ fps with a couple more grains of powder.
Safe or not safe? Hmmmm. Often the .30-06 is held unreasonably to lower SAAMI pressures than other cartridges, even those based on the same case, but necked down.
Frankly, if you safely worked up to it, and it's working in your rifle, I sure don't have a problem with "bughole" groups and 3100+ fps from a hunting bullet...
I'm not that big a fan of standard 150 gr bullets from the .30-06, but it ought to be one heck of a deer load!
Guy
Just a quick glance at QL shows about 63K PSI for a bullet running 3050 or so with 4320. Granted, the charges are different due to case size difference, the speed is still going to generate similar pressures. I would think your in the 65K range or so which, like Guy said probably isn't terribly horrible. It's what a 270 Win runs at and nobody thumbs their noses up at that.
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 150, Sierra SP 2130
Useable Case Capaci: 64.077 grain H2O = 4.160 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4320
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 79 46.16 2458 2012 33458 8564 93.2 1.311
-18.0 81 47.31 2515 2107 35658 8809 94.3 1.279
-16.0 83 48.47 2573 2205 37998 9043 95.3 1.245
-14.0 85 49.62 2630 2304 40487 9267 96.1 1.209
-12.0 87 50.78 2688 2406 43138 9478 96.9 1.173
-10.0 89 51.93 2745 2509 45961 9677 97.6 1.140
-08.0 91 53.08 2801 2614 48971 9862 98.3 1.107
-06.0 93 54.24 2858 2721 52178 10032 98.8 1.076
-04.0 95 55.39 2914 2829 55602 10187 99.2 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 56.55 2970 2938 59256 10326 99.6 1.017 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 57.70 3026 3049 63136 10447 99.8 0.989 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 58.85 3081 3161 67264 10551 99.9 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 60.01 3135 3274 71671 10637 100.0 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 61.16 3189 3388 76382 10710 100.0 0.911 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 62.32 3243 3503 81423 10781 100.0 0.886 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 63.47 3296 3619 86823 10847 100.0 0.863 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 57.70 3135 3273 74431 10074 100.0 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 57.70 2867 2738 52115 10431 96.2 1.074
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 150, Sierra SP 2130
Useable Case Capaci: 64.077 grain H2O = 4.160 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4320
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 79 46.16 2458 2012 33458 8564 93.2 1.311
-18.0 81 47.31 2515 2107 35658 8809 94.3 1.279
-16.0 83 48.47 2573 2205 37998 9043 95.3 1.245
-14.0 85 49.62 2630 2304 40487 9267 96.1 1.209
-12.0 87 50.78 2688 2406 43138 9478 96.9 1.173
-10.0 89 51.93 2745 2509 45961 9677 97.6 1.140
-08.0 91 53.08 2801 2614 48971 9862 98.3 1.107
-06.0 93 54.24 2858 2721 52178 10032 98.8 1.076
-04.0 95 55.39 2914 2829 55602 10187 99.2 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 56.55 2970 2938 59256 10326 99.6 1.017 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 57.70 3026 3049 63136 10447 99.8 0.989 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 58.85 3081 3161 67264 10551 99.9 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 60.01 3135 3274 71671 10637 100.0 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 61.16 3189 3388 76382 10710 100.0 0.911 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 62.32 3243 3503 81423 10781 100.0 0.886 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 63.47 3296 3619 86823 10847 100.0 0.863 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 57.70 3135 3273 74431 10074 100.0 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 57.70 2867 2738 52115 10431 96.2 1.074
- Thread starter
- #10
Ryan46- I wondered about that too, but in the past it has been spot on with some known loads/cartridges. It was about 69 deg and at 5,000ft or so altitude. Maybe that figured in? It was a hot enough load that I won't shoot it in our hot summer! I will try it again next winter in the cold and see what it does. I really like the Hogdon Extreme ( H4350, H4831, Varget, H322, etc) up here ever since I had R19 betray me! It was back in 2002, just a few days before a cow elk hunt in December and we had a cold snap. Thought I would check my zero in 10 degrees and my group had opened to about 5" and I was almost 200 fps slower! This was in a 338 WM and the 185 XLC. I worked up a load with H4350 and shot my cow. Been "spooked" ever since, ha. I normally work up my hunting loads in the hot summer, and had never had a problem in 30-60 deg hunting season. But around 10 deg, things get dicey, ha. I did check my R15 load in my Whelen at 30 deg and it had not changed at all. I also shoot a lot of R22, but one time I had worked up a load in a 280 Ackley around 50 deg and later, down in Texas at 85 deg the bolt was stiff! So that's why I will go and sweat in the summer at the range, ha. Then, I may still have to tweak a load in the really cold weather, but I won't have to worry about a popped primer in the summer or early Fall. I just got some IMR 4064 and I am going to try the 52 grain/150 load in the '06. I like 150's for Texas deer or for coyotes up here. The Barnes 130 TTSX intrigues me, heck, it may turn out to be the cats meow for my light bullet load. I actually prefer 165 for exotics/mule deer and 180, 200 grainers for elk in a '06. So far, nothing heavier than the 165 is really coming together. I do have some Swift 165 A-Frames to work on, later in the summer. I can live with a 165 for elk, even that 165 Sierra BTHP load above. Truth be told, that 130 TTSX will kill every elk in the hills, ha.
Hello preacher, I get what you are saying and if your happy with it so am I. What I have found to be the best powders in my .30-06 have been RL-17, IMR-4350, RL-19, and H-4350 with RL-17 being the hands down best for accuracy and speed. When RL-17 first became available I bought 3 lb to test with. Observing all the safety rules and watching closely for pressure signs I worked up to 61.5gr of RL-17 when 58 was book max.
I don’t worry about extreme temperature changes because here in Alabama we seldom get into the single digit range.
This was the load and chrony reading:
Rifle: Winchester: M70 Featherweight .30-06
Load: 61.5gr RL-17
Primer: CCI BRII
Case: RP
Bullet: Nosler 150gr BT
Average of 5 shots: 3181 fps.
I really didn’t see any pressure signs but I didn’t want to beat up my rifle either. I did shoot I 3 shot gp with it and got a sub one inch gp. This was before I clocked them. I have since backed off to 60 gr. I don’t shoot that rifle much anymore because 3 years ago I had should replacement surgery and can’t handle the recoil for more than a few shots. Another reason for the powders I use is that I can obtain max loads without them being compressed. It is a pain in the posterior for me to try to stuff powder into a case that is more than 100% loading density.
However, I just don’t see how you are getting that speed with that load in a 22” barrel. The #6 Speer manual lists O’Connor’s load at 2998 fps but with a 24” barrel.
Happy Shooting
Ryan 46
I don’t worry about extreme temperature changes because here in Alabama we seldom get into the single digit range.
This was the load and chrony reading:
Rifle: Winchester: M70 Featherweight .30-06
Load: 61.5gr RL-17
Primer: CCI BRII
Case: RP
Bullet: Nosler 150gr BT
Average of 5 shots: 3181 fps.
I really didn’t see any pressure signs but I didn’t want to beat up my rifle either. I did shoot I 3 shot gp with it and got a sub one inch gp. This was before I clocked them. I have since backed off to 60 gr. I don’t shoot that rifle much anymore because 3 years ago I had should replacement surgery and can’t handle the recoil for more than a few shots. Another reason for the powders I use is that I can obtain max loads without them being compressed. It is a pain in the posterior for me to try to stuff powder into a case that is more than 100% loading density.
However, I just don’t see how you are getting that speed with that load in a 22” barrel. The #6 Speer manual lists O’Connor’s load at 2998 fps but with a 24” barrel.
Happy Shooting
Ryan 46
- Thread starter
- #12
Well, my chrono could be off for sure. I will try and check it next round with some 22 mag/rifle combo that has been consistent in the past. I am not too worried about that particular load as chances are I will never use it, ha. I do want to try and find a good 2600 fps or so 200 gr load or even a solid 2700 fps 180 load. I am pretty happy with my 165 speer load ( and the sierra 165 lload, though I am gun shy with IMR 4350 in cold weather). I killed a ton of hogs in SE Texas with the old Federal Red Box load with the 165 sierra GK. I'm sure it was around 2700-2800 or so. It worked fine. I have found that if a bullet holds up on a big hog, it will work fine on elk also. I just found a load recommened for 56gr R22/200 grain that I will try. My rifle tends to string a group with 180s and anything over 57 gr. It is a Mountain rifle, pretty whippy barrel. thanks pard.
I use as a standard load for the 30-06 with 150s IMR 4064 51.2 grs and it average somewhere between 2900 and 3000 fps depending on the rifle and usually shoots bug holes. Good deer medicine. If you really want a deer dropper try the 125 Nosler ballistic tip with Varget and keep your IMPACT velocity under 3000 fps. I use this bullet in all my 30 cal. stuff. Put one in a shoulder and it drops like a rock. These are game bullet construction not varmint constriction. I have not tried any yet but the 125 AccuBond may be even better because you can raise the impact velocity with them.
- Thread starter
- #15
Alderman- I read that too. I would think though that many folks tried his recommended loads with satisfaction, especially the old 60 gr 4831/130 270 load. It "is" just about all you can get in the case, ha.
1shot- I have seen that 51-52 4064 load for years, just never got around to trying it. I don't need to hot rod my cases ( the IMR 4320 55gr load is pretty hot) just was really looking for an accurate 2950+ load. I am also trying to use powders I've had but don't normally use, or at least haven't in a very long time, saving my "favorites". I have shot rock chucks with the Nosler 125, but around 3100 fps with IMR 4831, (opens em up like a suitcase too!) later I used Varget for a Max load, very accurate. I have some on hand. I was thinking I would start with Varget with that Barnes TTSX 130, but think I will first try some Big Game I have on hand. I got speed with it and the 150's but my rifle strung them out. I don't hunt antelope as much as I used to, and my trips to Texas have become few/far apart, so my need for fast/flat lighter bullets for those lightly built critters has changed a bit. I have always liked the "thump" heavy for caliber bullets put on larger/denser critters, from hogs to Mountain Muleys ( though the Desert Muleys of Van Horn West Texas were much bigger than ours muleys here!) to elk. The 30-30 was pretty much "perfection" on the game I hunted in SE Texas, but we used '06s and magnums anyhow, ha.
1shot- I have seen that 51-52 4064 load for years, just never got around to trying it. I don't need to hot rod my cases ( the IMR 4320 55gr load is pretty hot) just was really looking for an accurate 2950+ load. I am also trying to use powders I've had but don't normally use, or at least haven't in a very long time, saving my "favorites". I have shot rock chucks with the Nosler 125, but around 3100 fps with IMR 4831, (opens em up like a suitcase too!) later I used Varget for a Max load, very accurate. I have some on hand. I was thinking I would start with Varget with that Barnes TTSX 130, but think I will first try some Big Game I have on hand. I got speed with it and the 150's but my rifle strung them out. I don't hunt antelope as much as I used to, and my trips to Texas have become few/far apart, so my need for fast/flat lighter bullets for those lightly built critters has changed a bit. I have always liked the "thump" heavy for caliber bullets put on larger/denser critters, from hogs to Mountain Muleys ( though the Desert Muleys of Van Horn West Texas were much bigger than ours muleys here!) to elk. The 30-30 was pretty much "perfection" on the game I hunted in SE Texas, but we used '06s and magnums anyhow, ha.
Preacher, I use the .30-06 for at least 90% of my hunting. I use only one powder now for all weight range of bullets and that is RL-17. This powder will give the highest velocity and best accuracy for bullets from 125gr to 200grs in my 06. Give it a try sometimes and see for yourself. This is not just my opinion only but many others on other forums I post on swear by it also.
Happy Shooting
Ryan 46
Happy Shooting
Ryan 46
- Thread starter
- #17
I have seen that R17 mentioned in a lot of places, but I have never seen any out here. I tried to locate some on the web and no dice, ha. I suppose I will have to wait until after the panic subsides. In the meantime, I had some H4831SC and 12 Nosler 200 Partition left. I used new Nosler brass, which is a tad thinner than Winchester, BR2 primers, and loaded some from 56 to start up to 59 grains. I normally would have gone up in .5 grain increments, but I'm not buying another box if my rifle won't shoot accurately with them. Since my Mod 700 Mountain rifle has a long throat, I was able to seat them .050 off the lands and still have a COL of 3.40. I have found that really long bullets do pretty well with a bit of a jump, plus I like my hunting loads super reliable in functioning. This puts the base just barely into the shoulder of the case. Hardly any compression at all on the 59gr charge. I should get some consistent velocities, just hope this whippy barrel likes them! I have found that heavily compressed R22 will 'cake up" and a magnum primer works best. This rifle did not like R22/200 combo. I have never used a magnum primer with H4831 in 06 size cases. Hopefully I can try them out Tuesday AM. Be sure and eat a plate of BBQ today, I know I am! Jim
- Thread starter
- #19
Well, I checked my chrono with some CCI 22 Magnum 40gr fmj ( rated 1875) from my dad's old Marlin 783 and got 1879 average. I think my chrono is good to go. I then tried my 4064 loads with the Speer 150 BT. In RP cases with CCI BR2 primers, 51.5 gr gave me almost a bug hole, 3 shot group. Granted, its only one group but it was what I was looking for. I like a 150 for coyotes and small deer/antelope. I got right at 2900 fps. 52 gr opened up my group to 3" in this Mod 700 Mountain Rifle ( whippy barrel). Next, the Nosler brass, Nosler 200 Partition and H4831SC over a WLR primer gave me way under .75" with the 58gr load, 2575 fps. My ES was only 3! I am good to go on this one. This will give me my elk/big hog/booger in the scary woods load! ha. I am happy. I ordered another box of Nosler 200s. I'm going to wait until mid-summer and work on the Swift 165 Aframe and Norma brass. On to my new to me 30-30 336 now. BTW, I had ordered some 30-30 Win "Winchester" head stamp once fired brass on Gunroker. I got a mixed batch of R-P, FC, Win, S&B abd Hornady! I sent the guy an email telling him this was unacceptable, to send me my 100 Winchester headstamped bras then I will return this mixed batch of crap. Update: the fellow just emailed me, it was a good faith mix-up, will send my Winchester head stamped brass out pronto...good guy!
