30-06 Reload Max Length

[nosler06]

Hi All

I am in the process of working up some new loads for my older Winchester Model 70 30-06 with the 165gr Nosler Partitions. I have been shooting the 180gr Partitions for 40+ years but am thinking about a change to the 165gr. The powder that I am currently using is H4350. What I am wondering is should I be seating the bullet to be as close to or exact full length of the 3.340"? Would it be best to run the rounds a little on the shorter side to reduce pressure? If I remember correctly the closest to or even touching the lands is when the pressure is at its maximum. Of course these will be ladder loads. Also wondering if I should try and go back to IMR4350? I switched a while back to H4350 due to the powder being less temperature sensitive than IMR4350. Most all of my hunting is done between the temperatures of 20 degrees celcius to minus 10 to 15 degrees celcius. Any info, help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[salmonchaser]

I get my best results with the partitions off the lands, .02-.05 : I wouldn’t worry about what the book says is max length as every chamber is going to be different. Your limiting factor may be your magazine box. If you find your chamber has eroded a little your magazine may not allow cartridges over 3.35. I would start with determining what your distance to the lands is, then determine if your magazine will accept cartridges that long.
I love H4350 and partitions in my 06. Other than length I don’t load over book max with H4350, or any other powder for that matter, and been very satisfied with the results.

 

[PJGunner]

I run the 165 gr. Nosler AccuBond over 56.0 gr. W760, Winchester brass and WLR primer for roughly close to 2800 FPS from my 30-06 with 24" barrel. Bullet is seated to standard factory length. Rifle is a custom based on an FN Mauser with 24" Douglass barrel and is bedded into a McMillan classic style stock. Accuracy runs from .50" to .75" depending on how well I'm shooting on that particular day.
My load work ups are usually done during Tucson's very hot summers and temps from 100 yo 115 are common with averages being about 110 at the range. About the coldest I've seen on any of my elk hunts has been 4 degrees above zero so somewhat warmer that where yu're hunting. I had no probmlen taking a cow elk at a bit over 100 yards and the temp at the truck was 14 above. The coldest I.ve shot at an elk was 4 above zero with no problem but the rifle was a .35 Whelen with 225 gr. TSX over RL15 powder.
A late friend who liked the 30-06 used 57.0 gr. H4350 and the 180 gr. noslder Partition for elk. I forget what he did for cold weather but IIRC he added .50 to one full grain in his hunting loads. Just beffore he passed he told me he was going with the 180 gr. Hornady SP for his hunt. We usually shared the same guide so we discussed and shared our load data quite often.
Paul B.

 

[300WSM]

I don't know about odd 6 much although many of my friends use one....

I can say and this is just my opinion that the trendy thing of some powders being better when the weather changes is way overstated.

I think back to how many years loaders used good old Winchester 760, IMR 4350 etc and didn't start missing game because the weather was bouncing around.
Is there a difference? I don't know about that and I certainly don't have the resources to test such a thing as a true exact proven result...and are the mfg's doing that as well? I doubt that but that's me.
That just my opinion but having been employed deep in the industry for quite a while I can tell you it's a marketing driven industry. Every industry is but shooting sports is second to none.

That all said if it gives you a cerebral edge..in other words a bigger confidence boost because you think your powder is impervious to the barometer then it very well might be worth it.

I would say though...if you are getting sub 1" groups with powder claiming to be weather impervious I would be willing to bet you are also getting sub 1" groups with powder from yesteryear. Just a hunch


I'm curious about your results and will pass along to some friends of mine about your 30-06.

Good luck

 

[Wolfshead]

I’ve found a good load with IMR 4064 for my 30-06.
Now I understand that this is about H4350, but my point is that 4064 is not considered a temp stable powder and I’ve hunted in weather down to 0 degrees and shot it in temps up to 90 without any problems in accuracy at least for hunting standards.
I feel you should be able to find a good load with H4350 and the 165 partitions, but if you’re more comfortable with the IMR 4350 then I believe you can be confident that would perform for you as well, maybe better?

 

[frankm]

+1 to Salmonchasers advice. Stay a little off lands for hunting ammo and don’t worry about oal if:
-Ammo fits mag
-You ve got a reasonable amount of bullet/pull in the case

 

[Guy Miner]

Hi All

I am in the process of working up some new loads for my older Winchester Model 70 30-06 with the 165gr Nosler Partitions. I have been shooting the 180gr Partitions for 40+ years but am thinking about a change to the 165gr. The powder that I am currently using is H4350. What I am wondering is should I be seating the bullet to be as close to or exact full length of the 3.340"? Would it be best to run the rounds a little on the shorter side to reduce pressure? If I remember correctly the closest to or even touching the lands is when the pressure is at its maximum. Of course these will be ladder loads. Also wondering if I should try and go back to IMR4350? I switched a while back to H4350 due to the powder being less temperature sensitive than IMR4350. Most all of my hunting is done between the temperatures of 20 degrees celcius to minus 10 to 15 degrees celcius. Any info, help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The 30-06, 165's, and H4350 are a terrific combination! If you load to the top of Hodgdon's charts, 2900 fps can be easily exceeded. Excellent accuracy can also be achieved.

I look at the recommended 3.340" cartridge length as a guide. You'll find what works best for your rifle, for reliability and accuracy. I would caution against seating the bullet out so far that it makes contact with the rifling. This can result in problems, including the bullet sticking in the rifling if you try to eject a loaded round!

That winds up spilling powder all through the chamber and action, and leaving the bullet stuck in the bore. Yes, I know this from experience, learned it the hard way some years ago.

For quite a few years I happily hunted with the combo of a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and H 4350 loaded to near max. Took black bear, mule deer, pronghorn antelope and elk with that combo. Actually in 2016 I took all four of those in one season, with that combo. A Nosler Partition would have done just as well or perhaps better.

You're on the right track, though I doubt anything was wrong with your old load using the 180 grain Nosler Partition. That's a classic!

Regards, Guy

 

[nosler06]

I don't know about odd 6 much although many of my friends use one....

I can say and this is just my opinion that the trendy thing of some powders being better when the weather changes is way overstated.

I think back to how many years loaders used good old Winchester 760, IMR 4350 etc and didn't start missing game because the weather was bouncing around.
Is there a difference? I don't know about that and I certainly don't have the resources to test such a thing as a true exact proven result...and are the mfg's doing that as well? I doubt that but that's me.
That just my opinion but having been employed deep in the industry for quite a while I can tell you it's a marketing driven industry. Every industry is but shooting sports is second to none.

That all said if it gives you a cerebral edge..in other words a bigger confidence boost because you think your powder is impervious to the barometer then it very well might be worth it.

I would say though...if you are getting sub 1" groups with powder claiming to be weather impervious I would be willing to bet you are also getting sub 1" groups with powder from yesteryear. Just a hunch


I'm curious about your results and will pass along to some friends of mine about your 30-06.

Good luck

It is interesting that you write this. Back 30 years ago this exact 06 was a true tack driver shooting 5 shot groups the size of a quarter using IMR4350. I also have my dads 1970 Browning BLR .308 which was exactly the same way way he was loading that .308 with IMR4350. I was told by some others that the IMR 4350 was not a suitable powder to use in the .308. I have tried many powders with that .308 and found that I can duplicate the accuracy using 8208XBR. For whatever reasons this .308 was a garden sprayer when using Varget. Go figure. You are so correct that I never thought about temperatures when hunting with my 06. I have been hunting the same areas as I still do now in South Eastern BC. The accuracy has not changed and my freezer each year tells me that it has not changed. Maybe you are on to something that the company's want you to be using their new powders, so maybe they are coming up with new ideas that get one to switch without there really being any major definitive differences. Maybe I shall do some loads with the IMR4350 and compare them. I will then know which powder this old 06 likes best.

 

[6mm Remington]

I used 165 gr. Partitions in two different 30-06 rifles I had. I started with a Remington 700 ADL and I used 57.4 grs of IMR4350 with the bullets seated to 3.375. This was a brand new rifle and I had no issues with that magazine length and seating depth. Also the chamber was long enough that I had no issues there either.
Sold that rifle to help me purchase a Ruger 1B in 30-06. Just love those #1's !! I tried the same loads I had worked up in the new Ruger #1. Well it liked them too. I did not have to change a single thing. It shot great. In the 26" barrel on the 1B, I am getting 2940 fps. Nosler finally came out with the AccuBond and I used the same load but I did not mess with the seating depth and left the die set where it was. After loading the new 165 gr. AccuBond with 57.4 grs of powder the loaded rounds are 3.410 in length. It shoots this load with the AccuBond just as well as the Partition. I did not have to mess with how I had the die set for the Partition in order to load the Accubonds, it just worked!
The scope used was a fixed 4x Leupold.

 

[300WSM]

It is interesting that you write this. Back 30 years ago this exact 06 was a true tack driver shooting 5 shot groups the size of a quarter using IMR4350. I also have my dads 1970 Browning BLR .308 which was exactly the same way way he was loading that .308 with IMR4350. I was told by some others that the IMR 4350 was not a suitable powder to use in the .308. I have tried many powders with that .308 and found that I can duplicate the accuracy using 8208XBR. For whatever reasons this .308 was a garden sprayer when using Varget. Go figure. You are so correct that I never thought about temperatures when hunting with my 06. I have been hunting the same areas as I still do now in South Eastern BC. The accuracy has not changed and my freezer each year tells me that it has not changed. Maybe you are on to something that the company's want you to be using their new powders, so maybe they are coming up with new ideas that get one to switch without there really being any major definitive differences. Maybe I shall do some loads with the IMR4350 and compare them. I will then know which powder this old 06 likes best.

It only takes one respected person in the industry to start talking about a subject and next thing you know it catches fire.
The late 2000's, 2010, era is when this temperature thing started getting some chatter.
Trendy IMO...marketing...

If the mfg plants a seed with marketing then it must be so.

Shooters are always looking for an "edge" or at least one they think.
Barometer impervious powders, scales going out to 4 tenths(.004)

I think gee...
Many suppers were fulfilled and competitions won using whatever powder shot well with no thought whatsoever on the weather. All while using a beam scale mind you.

Let me know your findings

 

[RL338]

My 30-06 is on its second barrel. The factory Marlin had an awful long throat. The only bullet I found that could touch the lands was the 230gr Berger and just barely. That barrel never shot well. The second barrel throat is much shorter and now I follow the bullet manufacture’s recommended COAL with success.

 

[RiverRider]

Temperature sensitivity is NOT just marketing hype. All powders are sensitive to temperature to some extent, but some are affected least while others are affected the most. Whether or not it matters to you is for you to decide, but poopooing the whole idea as nothing but marketing hype simply could not be more incorrect.

 

[NMachine]

Temperature sensitivity is NOT just marketing hype. All powders are sensitive to temperature to some extent, but some are affected least while others are affected the most. Whether or not it matters to you is for you to decide, but poopooing the whole idea as nothing but marketing hype simply could not be more incorrect.

Long range shooting out past 500 yards….it matters. For hunting or typical range target shooting, you might have a 1/2” to 1” elevation difference with most common cartridges out at 400 yards because of the 100-150 fps loss/gain due to “temperature sensitivity “. If you are a competitive shooter you need every mode of consistency you can attain. For the average shooter, most can’t hold the difference in accuracy anyway.

 

[diverdown]

I measure the OAL by seating a bullet in the magazine with a bit of space to spare. Then I push the round with the bolt to see what the fit is. If it won't chamber or chambers with difficulty (Rifling marks on bullet) I seat deeper until I find a comfortable spot and shoot from there. Remember to seat the bullet to an adequate depth. (At least one caliber in depth) As guy said having a load of powder in the magazine is not fun so be watchful. That has worked well over the years for me.

 

[clearwater]

Posted this before. High temperature causing shots to rise. Don't know tho how much of this is powder or just a mechanical result of hot barrel as it got hot in just 3 or 4 shots. Rounds all came from the same 20 loaded cartridges. 25-06. Velocity about 3100 fps. Bottom shots at 5 F, top at 95 F

Also these are short bullets seated over .25" off the lands.

 

[PJGunner]

I do almost all my load workups during southern Arizona's very hot summers. Temps running as high as 110 degrees and higher. Many of my hunts during the last few years I hunted were well below freezing. One pet load with thr 30-06 uses W760 and the .280 Rem., .270 Win. and .300 Win, Mag use the long gone WMR poder. Both powders are sad to be exremely sensitive to temperature but you couldn't prove it by me. On my various elk hunts I've mainly used my .35 Whelen and RL15 Usually, the day before the hunt I go to the sight in range at the Whittington Center to do a final check of my sights. Rifles are kept hidden overnight in my vehicle, then taken to the range. With the powders mentions, I never saw any noticeable change in point of impact and shooting at the various metallic targets as far out as 400 yards had no problem hitting them. If temperature
One gun writer has done testing where he lives and it gets a lot colder than where I hunt. (-40*) The coldest I've done any shooting was 4 above zero at Raton and it was 14 above when I got my shot at an elk which promptly laid down and died. Frankly, I think any difference would be covered during the hunt by the wibbles and wobbles of a thoroughly chilled hunter.
Paul B.

 

[Richracer1]

FWIW, I have a 30-06 Weatherby Vanguard Sporter that I have a 180AB load worked for it. As for OAL, I was able to get out 3.39" and still function in the magazine. So first and foremost, find out how far out you can go and still have it function in the magazine. Then start working on a load.

Edit: Back then I measured the OAL with a caliper from the base of the brass to the tip of the bullet. I have recently bought the tools needed to measure from the base to the ogive.