300 weatherby mag or 7mm weatherby mag
- Thread starter laker
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moreloader
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- Dec 20, 2005
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If you are intent on a weatherby pick the 300. The bullet selection is much better. If you will select a slow powder that will fill the case you can get good accuracy from lighter bullets reducing the recoil. If you use a faster powder you will notice reduced accuracy in the overbored cartridge. I would stick to 165's for deer. If you would like you can step that up to a 180 for elk or even a 200, but remember recoil is consitant with bullet size and velocity.
- Nov 4, 2004
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laker,
You might also want to consider the 300 Win Mag. Brass will cost less and you can load down to 30-06 level to taarget shooting with reduced recoil.
JD338
You might also want to consider the 300 Win Mag. Brass will cost less and you can load down to 30-06 level to taarget shooting with reduced recoil.
JD338
laker:laker":29zojhxx said:
I hain't never kilt an Elk, but I love my 7mm Weatherby, and consider it plenty big enough for anything in Naw'arth America. The recoil is significantly less than for a 300 Magnum.
Brass or Factory loads cost more for Weatherby rounds, and the 7mm Weatherby is the least popular. I've never used a factory load in mine. I got 100 cases from Cabela's for about $80.00 and came up with a load of 74 grains of H 1000, and a 160 grain Nosler Partition. That's the first load I tried. No load developement, and it goes around 3000 fps, and is accurate. I've used that load successfully for hunting Caribou the last 3 years.
I made another 100 cases from 7mm Remington Magnum brass by just resizing them in my Weatherby sizing die, and fireforming them. That is the brass I use for tinkering. The necks are shorter, but still longer than the necks of 7mm Remington cases.
My rifle is what I call a "Utility Weatherby". It is a Mark V, Stainless Steel, 26 inch barrel, with a plastic stock. It isn't a lightweight, and that helps in the recoil department.
Smitty of the North
- Oct 30, 2004
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300 BEE all the way. If you can handle a 7 Bee or a 300 WIN you can handle a 300 BEE. You can also handload and work up your recoil levels until you're good with it. Good to have that extra horsepower.
G
Guest
Guest
I agree that for a combo gun there might be a slight advantage to the 300Wby in this case, but that is ever so slight. Remember that Roy Weatherby took a Cape Buffalo with a 257Wby. And plenty of elk are taken by 270Win rifles with good bullets. So the 7mm is a good choice, and will recoil less than the 300, in some cases very noticeably less.
I have to take issue with one comment regarding bullet selection, however. There are plenty of bullet choices, both in construction and design intent, for .284 caliber guns. Not quite as many as for .308, but then again, are you going to shoot anything through a 300Wby in the 110-150gr class of bullet? I doubt it. Not much with heavy enough construction to withstand the impact on game. So now we have 165-220gr, and there just aren't but a couple of 220's out there. Several 200's, but again, the 180gr pill will cure what ails any elk, just like the 175gr in a 7Wby, but at a slightly reduced BC, which means less aerodynamic efficiency. I know you will get a tad more velocity out of the 180gr in the 300, something like 100-150fps, but I don't know if that will change the trajectory that much. Of course, caliber to caliber, the comparison is 160gr 7mm v. 180gr 300, and 175gr 7mm v. 200gr 300. In these cases, velocities will be nearly identical, as will trajectories. So make your choice on what you like the most, and whether you feel the added recoil is worth the pain. For the record, with the 175gr at 2976fps, the 7mmWby has 25lbs recoil. The 300, shooting a 180gr at 3132fps, has 32lbs recoil. I am sure you'll notice the difference at the range.
I have to take issue with one comment regarding bullet selection, however. There are plenty of bullet choices, both in construction and design intent, for .284 caliber guns. Not quite as many as for .308, but then again, are you going to shoot anything through a 300Wby in the 110-150gr class of bullet? I doubt it. Not much with heavy enough construction to withstand the impact on game. So now we have 165-220gr, and there just aren't but a couple of 220's out there. Several 200's, but again, the 180gr pill will cure what ails any elk, just like the 175gr in a 7Wby, but at a slightly reduced BC, which means less aerodynamic efficiency. I know you will get a tad more velocity out of the 180gr in the 300, something like 100-150fps, but I don't know if that will change the trajectory that much. Of course, caliber to caliber, the comparison is 160gr 7mm v. 180gr 300, and 175gr 7mm v. 200gr 300. In these cases, velocities will be nearly identical, as will trajectories. So make your choice on what you like the most, and whether you feel the added recoil is worth the pain. For the record, with the 175gr at 2976fps, the 7mmWby has 25lbs recoil. The 300, shooting a 180gr at 3132fps, has 32lbs recoil. I am sure you'll notice the difference at the range.
You have had some very good responses here. I guess I will throw in my two cents worth as well.
I own and shoot both cartridges, I like them both. But, if I had to have only one, God forbid, it would be the 300 Wby Magnum.
Do not get my wrong, I like my 7mm Wby Mag, but that 300 just puts things on the ground. I have never shot an elk with my 7mm, I have always used the 300 or my 338 Win Mag. The last two six point bulls I have shot with the 300 Wby Mag and 180 Nosler Partitions have never taken another step.
Unless you are really worried about the recoil, the 300 is the way to go. I do not find the 300 Wby recoil that bad, but it IS different than a 270 or 30-06. You WILL know when it goes off! (Having said that, my 338 Win Mag kicks worse, and my buddies 300 RUM kicks a LOT worse.)
And the 300 Wby Mag is not too much gun for deer hunting. The last buck I shot here in CA with mine probably did not field dress much more than a 100 pounds. The 180 Partition did not tear up much meat and he hit the ground right now.
On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a 300 magnum after talking with my dad and I. He just could not deal with it. The recoil was too much for him. He sold it and bought a 7mm magnum. The 7mm magnums will work on about anything in the US, that is for sure. I have a buddy who went to Wyoming with shells I loaded for his 7mm Rem Mag. Using 160 Nosler Partitions he killed a deer, an elk, and a moose with one shot each.
Either cartridge will work fine on most any game you might hunt.
Do like I did, get both. Then work up loads with the same trajectory and use them without worrying about which drops the most, etc.
I own and shoot both cartridges, I like them both. But, if I had to have only one, God forbid, it would be the 300 Wby Magnum.
Do not get my wrong, I like my 7mm Wby Mag, but that 300 just puts things on the ground. I have never shot an elk with my 7mm, I have always used the 300 or my 338 Win Mag. The last two six point bulls I have shot with the 300 Wby Mag and 180 Nosler Partitions have never taken another step.
Unless you are really worried about the recoil, the 300 is the way to go. I do not find the 300 Wby recoil that bad, but it IS different than a 270 or 30-06. You WILL know when it goes off! (Having said that, my 338 Win Mag kicks worse, and my buddies 300 RUM kicks a LOT worse.)
And the 300 Wby Mag is not too much gun for deer hunting. The last buck I shot here in CA with mine probably did not field dress much more than a 100 pounds. The 180 Partition did not tear up much meat and he hit the ground right now.
On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a 300 magnum after talking with my dad and I. He just could not deal with it. The recoil was too much for him. He sold it and bought a 7mm magnum. The 7mm magnums will work on about anything in the US, that is for sure. I have a buddy who went to Wyoming with shells I loaded for his 7mm Rem Mag. Using 160 Nosler Partitions he killed a deer, an elk, and a moose with one shot each.
Either cartridge will work fine on most any game you might hunt.
Do like I did, get both. Then work up loads with the same trajectory and use them without worrying about which drops the most, etc.
The Weatherby cartridges are not very good designs. Both have poor headspace control, very expensive ammunition and neither is very popular. However they do have a following. The Weatherby concept is pretty much retro and harks back to the fender fins and chrome grill era.
In 300 magnums the 300 WM is far more popular and the 300 WSM has sold many guns in a short period.
In the 7mm's the 7mm RM dominates all.
In 300 magnums the 300 WM is far more popular and the 300 WSM has sold many guns in a short period.
In the 7mm's the 7mm RM dominates all.
Savage99":ca5l96gh said:
Savage99:
I’ve always enjoyed your posts, so please understand I’m not wanting to lock horns with you on this, but I just wanted to say….
All the Weatherby cartridges are pretty much the same. The design includes the Freebored chamber.
I consider the 7mm Weatherby a much better design than the 7mm Remington. The neck is longer, and the shoulder is steeper. The velocity is higher. You can seat the heavy bullets out farther.
All belted cases headspace the same way.
I know that many claim that the short necks on the 7mm RM, and the 300 WM, aren't a problem. I submit that the Freebore of the Weatherbys isn't a problem either, so that evens it out IMO.
I know it's popular to repeat the supposed downsides of the Weatherby cartridges, but I find little justification for it. I suspect that they will far outlast these new Short Fat designs.
As you pointed out, the 7mm RM, and the 300 WMs are cheaper. That explains in large part why they are more popular than the Weatherby cartridges. I like "fender fins and chrome grills" myself.
Is there any hope for me????
Smitty of the North
G
Guest
Guest
I'd have to add that there are an awful lot of dead game animals that don't agree with your assessment of the Weatherby rounds as "...not a very good design..." Savage99.
There is some argument about the double radius shoulder, but only in relation to whether Roy W. meant it to be a more efficient means of directing the burning gases out of the cartridge (because it acts as a smooth venturi, rather than creating eddies at the sharp corners) or whether he did it to make it hard for reamer manufacturers to duplicate the chamber, so they would not usurp his designs. Either way, the issue is not headspace, as has been mentioned, because all the belted cartridges are designed with the same headspace method, the belt.
Yes, the 7RemMag and 300WinMag are more popular, but so are Fords and Chevys, but that doesn't mean Cadillacs and Lincolns are not very good designs. Paying the price of admission for a Weatherby is beyond many people's budgets, and would have been mine if I hadn't found one on a deal. That doesn't, however, stop the rifle and cartridge design from being a sound one. In fact, I suspect the truth is that the Weatherby cartridges are responsible for a lot of cartridge development in the more economical sector from Winchester and Remington, as Roy is the one of the strongest driving forces behind the "light bullet, high velocity" school of thought for the latter 20th century. All of the rounds you mention as being better (300WM, 300WSM, etc.) are built on the same "retro" idea as the old Weatherbys. It's just that everyone knows the best fins of all time were on a '59 Cadillac DeVille, not a Ford or a Chevy.
There is some argument about the double radius shoulder, but only in relation to whether Roy W. meant it to be a more efficient means of directing the burning gases out of the cartridge (because it acts as a smooth venturi, rather than creating eddies at the sharp corners) or whether he did it to make it hard for reamer manufacturers to duplicate the chamber, so they would not usurp his designs. Either way, the issue is not headspace, as has been mentioned, because all the belted cartridges are designed with the same headspace method, the belt.
Yes, the 7RemMag and 300WinMag are more popular, but so are Fords and Chevys, but that doesn't mean Cadillacs and Lincolns are not very good designs. Paying the price of admission for a Weatherby is beyond many people's budgets, and would have been mine if I hadn't found one on a deal. That doesn't, however, stop the rifle and cartridge design from being a sound one. In fact, I suspect the truth is that the Weatherby cartridges are responsible for a lot of cartridge development in the more economical sector from Winchester and Remington, as Roy is the one of the strongest driving forces behind the "light bullet, high velocity" school of thought for the latter 20th century. All of the rounds you mention as being better (300WM, 300WSM, etc.) are built on the same "retro" idea as the old Weatherbys. It's just that everyone knows the best fins of all time were on a '59 Cadillac DeVille, not a Ford or a Chevy.
Savage99
You appear to have an abnormal degree of difficulty with belted cases.
As far as I am aware D'Arcy Echol's personal choice of calibres is the 300 Wby and I think David Miller might be the same. I think virtually all Echols made rifles are in belted magnums.
There must be something you are doing that is wrong :?:
Mike
You appear to have an abnormal degree of difficulty with belted cases.
As far as I am aware D'Arcy Echol's personal choice of calibres is the 300 Wby and I think David Miller might be the same. I think virtually all Echols made rifles are in belted magnums.
There must be something you are doing that is wrong :?:
Mike
Mike,
Welcome to the Nosler forum. For you guys that don't know Mike 378 or Mike 375 was it he has shot more game that all the rest of us put together on this and on two other forums.
Mike,
I have made it my internet fun to point out the design defect in belted bottlenecked cartridges that are supposed to headspace on the belt. If I chambered my own barrels I would measure the available brass and ammo and cut the chamber just deep enough to fit.
You can go back to the archives at AR on this and see the gage that John Ricks made and what he had to say about chambering rifles for belted bottlenecked cases.
Sorry to disparage your Weatherby rounds. I know you like them and for sure you know how to shoot stuff.
Welcome to the Nosler forum. For you guys that don't know Mike 378 or Mike 375 was it he has shot more game that all the rest of us put together on this and on two other forums.
Mike,
I have made it my internet fun to point out the design defect in belted bottlenecked cartridges that are supposed to headspace on the belt. If I chambered my own barrels I would measure the available brass and ammo and cut the chamber just deep enough to fit.
You can go back to the archives at AR on this and see the gage that John Ricks made and what he had to say about chambering rifles for belted bottlenecked cases.
Sorry to disparage your Weatherby rounds. I know you like them and for sure you know how to shoot stuff.
Sorry to disparage your Weatherby rounds
Does not worry me at all...go for it
But I think for the average shooter 'belted or rimless" is not an important part of the equation.
In general and if all else was equal I would prefer rimless. One exception would be using very reduced loads in expensive brass as the headspace will increase with each shot on a rimless.
But being rimless would be insignificant to me and calibre choice would be invariably decided by other issues. I would pick a 300 Winchester over a 300 WSM because I prefer longer actions and the 300 Win Mag brass is much more widely available in Australia.
As to Wby I think they at their best in the various calibres based on the 378 case, at least in terms of value for money.
As a side note and in one of my 378s I am using 85 grains of Varget and 270 grain Hornady and 91 grains of Varget and 225 grain Hornady. Velocites are just under 2700 and 2900 respectively and both loads are around 10 grains less than a maximum load of Varget. Recoil is very similar to a 375 H&H but the blast is much softer. Case life is just this side of forever :grin:
Mike
Does not worry me at all...go for it
But I think for the average shooter 'belted or rimless" is not an important part of the equation.
In general and if all else was equal I would prefer rimless. One exception would be using very reduced loads in expensive brass as the headspace will increase with each shot on a rimless.
But being rimless would be insignificant to me and calibre choice would be invariably decided by other issues. I would pick a 300 Winchester over a 300 WSM because I prefer longer actions and the 300 Win Mag brass is much more widely available in Australia.
As to Wby I think they at their best in the various calibres based on the 378 case, at least in terms of value for money.
As a side note and in one of my 378s I am using 85 grains of Varget and 270 grain Hornady and 91 grains of Varget and 225 grain Hornady. Velocites are just under 2700 and 2900 respectively and both loads are around 10 grains less than a maximum load of Varget. Recoil is very similar to a 375 H&H but the blast is much softer. Case life is just this side of forever :grin:
Mike
- Oct 30, 2004
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Savage99":rhstk207 said:
Oh I know mike from the other forums....long time!
Welcome Mike! Glad to have you! :lol:
Still playing with the 378 huh?
I sold all of mine and bought a 416 "bee". :wink:
Pop,
I saw where you were doing some varmint blasting with the 416 Wby :grin:
I had a 416 Wby and 416 Rem not long after they came out but there not real good in Australia because of bullets. The problem is now worse because of the export licence requirements.
Although a mate of mine just got about 350 Northforks for a 338/378 Accumark he collects in a couple of week. He got Huntingtons to get them from Northfork but they were quite expensive and doubly so with shipping. We do have an agent for Barnes X but the supply is not all that reliable. Of course if you were only going to use the 416 for what it was intended instead of blowing kangaroos, goats and pigs to bits then bullets would be OK.
Mike
I saw where you were doing some varmint blasting with the 416 Wby :grin:
I had a 416 Wby and 416 Rem not long after they came out but there not real good in Australia because of bullets. The problem is now worse because of the export licence requirements.
Although a mate of mine just got about 350 Northforks for a 338/378 Accumark he collects in a couple of week. He got Huntingtons to get them from Northfork but they were quite expensive and doubly so with shipping. We do have an agent for Barnes X but the supply is not all that reliable. Of course if you were only going to use the 416 for what it was intended instead of blowing kangaroos, goats and pigs to bits then bullets would be OK.
Mike
- Oct 30, 2004
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I have cousins in Canada and I am originally from Greece, so I do feel your pain!
