300 Win Mag Tight Cases

[summitsnow]

This issue has been plagueing me since I purchased the rifle it is a Rem 700 Sendero with a 26" barrell.

IMR 4831
GM215M Primers
180 Grain Nosler AccuBond

I started out working up a load (Took the load data from a speer and Nosler manual) with used brass and they were varied in tightness upon ejecting them they all chambered just fine not tight what so ever. This brass has been fired not more than three times counting this firing from what I was told. I recieved the brass from a friend. The powder that I am using is from and old lot has never had any moisture and was stored properly. I originally started my load at the minimum (69 grains) I proceeded to work my way up in half grain incriments until I got to 71 g and felt by the hard extractions that is was a sign of pressure so I stopped.

I have heard that older lots of powder could be hotter so I did the same thing with a new lot of powder and the same thing was happening (hard extractions) Even with H4831SC it was doing the same thing. I tried new cases and even started out at 65 grains (IMR4831) per the Lee manual which seems to be a bit more conservative did not run into any of the hard extractions and stopped at 69.5 grains because my MOA was excellant but still no hard extractions.

The primers tended to be flattened slightly on all of the loads but in comparisions to a factory loaded Federal Speer Hot Core they were of identical flatness so I was not conserned with that even though it is a sign of pressure.

Ok Lol my question finally I have heard that a belted magnum cartridge can only be loaded two or three times before expands to much at the web to be chambered. My problem is that I am not seeing that before being fired only after. Also Innovative Technologies http://www.larrywillis.com offers a collet die for belted magnum cartridges to take care of the web issue but have not had a chance to use it yet because they are still being sized to specs with no feeding issues. So do the cases themselves become to weak to fire after a couple of times and the collet die is a load of garbage, or am I doing something wrong.

I know from the factory that belted magnums headspace off of the belt, but in relaoded ammunition you should headspace off the shoulder i have read and not read depends on the source. I have been FL sizing them and using the belt as a headspace not the shoulder was thinking off trying that next to see if that helps. Which is the correct way and could this be part of my problem of hard extraction after firing since I am way below a max load?

Thanks for any help and insight that you might have this magnum cartridge is driving me nuts have never had this many problems with loading ammo!

 

[YoteSmoker]

I'm not sure of the hard extraction issue or only getting 2-3 reloads, but as far as headspace, when you full length resize it sets back the headspace between the belt and the case head. The shoulder is irrelevant to headspace as long as it fits the chamber properly unlike a non-belted bottle necked case.

One way to check for early case separation problems is to take a wire or paperclip and drag it inside the wall of the case between the webbing and the case head. If it catches, then your brass is about to go and if not, you are good to go.

 

[rick smith]

You don't want to FL size the brass so it headspaces on the belt, that will lead to early casehead seperation. After the first firing, just neck size until the cases start to get tight in the chamber. Then PFL moving the shoulder back 1-2 thousants so you will be headspacing off the shoulder not the belt. Used cases from someone else's rifle is not your best bet. Not everyone knows how many times it was loaded and may not be able to tell you what loads were used. Is it all from the same lot? Spring for some new cases and keep records.Rick.

 

[summitsnow]

Thanks for all the ideas guys I usually use a pick to check for early case head seperation and they have all been checked and are fine.

I guess I should have said the brass that I got from a friend was all shot in the rifle that I bought same owner of both! I am new to the forum thing and some of the acronym's PFL? Is it partial Full Length size?

So if I was to only neck size and then I could use the collet from innovative tech to set my web back if it becomes to far out of spec?
I have never neck sized only full length sized I have heard that your feeding may not be as reliable if you are neck sizing?

I have bought some new cases and worked up the same load with IMR 4831 and found that 69.5 is the most accurate for my rifle and am going to load them again so that I can keep a accurate record of what they are doing just as you were saying Rick.

Thanks again guys for the great ideas and thoughts if you have any more please clue me in have a good day!

 

[onesonek]

As you know, the loading manuals are guidlines only. I'm sorta thinking , your chamber is tighter than some, or it is just a warmer lot of powder as thought. Therefore, you are reaching max pressures before max listed loads. Each gun has it's own set off rules, that need adhered to. As you've figured, accuracy is most important. But if you are chronagraphing your speeds and not happy, I would go to a slower powder. My personal choice for that combination would be either H1000 or Reloder 22 for starters. I would also partial or neck size the reloads, starting with new brass.

Dave

 

[rick smith]

PFL is partial full length size and is done with a regular FL die. I load a lot of 300 WM and have never had to use the innovative tech die. Don't own one. I neck size all my brass until it starts to get snug in the chamber, then will PFL size. Never had a problem with function of neck sized brass in my rifles.Rick.

 

[kraky]

People that buy "used brass" from anyone that "supposedly" was so and so always ask for trouble. Unless you have measuring tools and dies like collet dies, body dies, etc etc don't bother the rest of us with your problems that were caused by buying habits to save a nickel here and a penny there. It's really simple....when you buy unknown you better be smart enough to fix "unknown".

 

[old #7]

You don't want to FL size the brass so it headspaces on the belt, that will lead to early casehead seperation. After the first firing, just neck size until the cases start to get tight in the chamber. Then PFL moving the shoulder back 1-2 thousants so you will be headspacing off the shoulder not the belt. Used cases from someone else's rifle is not your best bet. Not everyone knows how many times it was loaded and may not be able to tell you what loads were used. Is it all from the same lot? Spring for some new cases and keep records.Rick.

+1
I have loaded for the 7mm mag and the 300 mag fo quite sometime and I use the PFL method. In fact I have only neck sized for my 300 mag. I never had a problem with feeding or extraction. If my memory serves me well I got 9 reloads out of PR brass before I started seeing cracks in the neck.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I also load alot of belted magnum. I also use a PFL, and have never found a need for the innovatech die. We discussed this in another threat, and I don't remember seeing seeing a reply from anyone with any credible amount of experience who saw a need for the die.....

I've found that if I intend to switch brass from rifle A to rifle B, it's best to full length resize and trim, and check for fit in the new chamber before loading it for a new rifle.

How many rounds have been shot threw the rifle? Could the headspace be getting a little long?

 

[summitsnow]

Thanks I will try neck sizing and PFL sizing. I will try both with two different lots of brass. I have been seeing PFL in other articles that I have been reading about belted magnumsbecause of the premature case head seperations. It is always nice to have a variety of insight and knowledge from fellow loaders! I do not think that the headspace is too long yet the rifle has only had about 600-700 rounds through it. Has been owned by two people both who I know very well they both went back to .308 bolt gun.

Just so you know kraky I got the brass for free from the two other owners of the gun who I know and shoot with regularly. I do have a collet die, OAL length gauge and comparators, but will pick up a headspace gauge this week we are all here I thought to enjoy our hobby no one knows absolutely everything there is always someone with more experience somewhere and I absolutely appreciate their opinions and help!

Also I forgot to put in that the new cases that I talked about in an earlier post did not have any ejection issues and performed well. Will let you know how it goes on round two with only PFLing them rather than FL like I had done to the prior used cases!

 

[kraky]

I apologize for my crankiness in my above post. I see so many posts from people that try to save a nickel using used brass but it is certainly their right to do so. I can offer this. When you work with belted mags the problem can get more difficult. Belted mag dies don't size all the way down to the belt, belted mag brass is often undersized when new and stretches alot to fit the chambers of different guns. I usually see much wider variances in belted mag chambers than non belted.
I do have the innovative tech die and it is wonderful. I load for alot of friends with weatherbies. One buddy has 3 rifles in one caliber alone. Some of his guns get the bulge the die was designed to erase. The die works perfectly.
I would highly recomend to anyone that wants to use (used) belted mag brass that they get a die like this and headspace gauges to monitor brass stretch. Headspace measuring is very interesting in the mag chambers I've watched brass grow in. The innovative tech die wil take you back to factory dimensions and then you can resize your brass to the correct headspace for YOUR GUNS CHAMBER.
The cheapest and best solution for the average reloader is to buy new brass and keep it with that gun. But as you get more tools and experience you can play with and get "almost new" performance out of used brass from other guns.

 

[summitsnow]

I know what you are saying about trying to save a nickel it is not always worth it. This has been my first experience with belted magnums and I am trying learn and ask individuals such as yourself for your advice I appreciate it very much and am taking every piece of info that you have all provided to heart.

Nice to know that someone else has and uses the inno tech die and it was not a waste of money for as musch as it costs! When I get back in a week or so I am going to work up a new batch and PFL watching my headspace and see what the rifle will do with brass. Thanks again!