300 WSM vs 300 Win Mag

[Guy Miner]

BTW - have you considered just handloading your 300 Weatherby for less velocity & recoil instead of buying a different rifle?

I've owned both the 300 WSM and the 300 Win Mag and like them both. The 300 WSM was quite accurate, but a 300 Win mag can also be seriously accurate. The 300 WSM had more manageable recoil.

Regards, Guy

 

[truck driver]

I have never owned a 300WSM but have owned a 300Wby and still have a 300Wm. My 300Wby was very accurate after I put it in a stock with a full action metal bedding block but even with the heavy stock it gave me headaches when I shot it, the 300Wm is very tolerable in the same style/brand stock and accurate. If recoil is a problem, I would get a 30-06 and I do have one that shoots great and has accounted for more game animals than either of my two magnums and I wouldn't hesitate to use it out too 500yds. The 30-06 has also won 1000yd matches with Unertl scopes mounted on M70s. Heck the lowly 308ww has won 1000yd matches, it's the rifle and the man behind the trigger. Magnums were created for people who couldn't kill game humanely with standard cartridges and they still cripple more game today even with magnums. JMO

Edit to add that I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes with my opinion since though late in life I also drank the magnum Kolade several years ago not thinking my 30-06 was big enough for Elk and went on a spending spree which started with a M70 7mmRem mag and ended with a Ruger Hawkeye in 338Win.
The 300Wby was a gun raffle prize and quite the experience I don't want to experience again.

 

[IdahoCTD]

The Nosler and Weatherby are similar capacities. The RUM has about 12+% more capacity and 100+fps advantage.

 

[RL338]

Sorry for the confusion. I have a 300 WBY. I consider the WBY, RUM and 30 Nosler to be in a general category of Ultra Magnums but that might not be correct terminology.

I consider anything over 100+grs an Ultra Mag , anything less is a Magnum

 

[Blkram]

I will say that I have shot the 300 Wby and RUM.

I found the 300 Wby to be one of the sharpest felt recoiling rifles I have ever fired (Winchester Model 70 XTR shooting factory Wby 180 gr ammo). And one of two rifles ever fired where the scope just brushed my brow (the other being a hot loaded 416 Rigby). The rifle belonged to a young fellow that was just getting into hunting and someone had talked into it as his first hunting rifle. He had asked for my help in making sure it was sighted in after he had tried unsuccessfully to get it on target. If i recall correctly it wore a Bushnell 3200 scope.While I wouldn't have recommended this cartridge for a new hunter, he did shoot it fairly well, and was capable of 1" groups with after we got it dialed in for him, and got him managing his trigger control. I have fred a couple of Weatherby's in 300 Wby, and while they had better scopes with better eye relief, and the typical monte carlo stock, I still found their recoil to be very sharp.

The couple of 300 RUMs I have fired over the years were both Remington 700s with factory synthetic stocks sporting factory recoil pads made by LimbSaver, shooting factory and handloaded180 gr ammo. To be honest, I did not find the recoil to be nowhere near as sharp as the Wby, but I attribute some of that to the LimbSaver recoil pads. (I had a similar experience with the 338 RUM in the same rifles as well, and found that the 340 Wby was not as sharp in felt recoil in a Wby rifle as the 300.)

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

I will say that I have shot the 300 Wby and RUM.

I found the 300 Wby to be one of the sharpest felt recoiling rifles I have ever fired…
The couple of 300 RUMs I have fired over the years were both Remington 700s with factory synthetic stocks sporting factory recoil pads made by LimbSaver, shooting factory and handloaded180 gr ammo. To be honest, I did not find the recoil to be nowhere near as sharp as the Wby, but I attribute some of that to the LimbSaver recoil pads. (I…found that the 340 Wby was not as sharp in felt recoil in a Wby rifle as the 300.)

To me the RUM in the 700 Remington with a synthetic stock is manageable, about like my old 8mm Rem Mag was. But I fired a Model 70 Classic Sporter in .300 RUM that kicked more than my .375 H&H did. I’ve since sold both the 8mm and the .375. Ditto my .300 Win Mag. Early on I discovered that I shot my .30-06 and .308 rifles much better.

Felt recoil is largely a gun/gun stock fitting well to the shooter issue imho, but still a .270, .308 or .30-06 to me are much easier to manage (regardless of stock fit) than any of the super/ultra/ball-busting magnums.

I personally like the .264 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag and .300 WSM the best for what I do if one “needs” a magnum. Never would I ever suggest a .300 Magnum of any kind to an upstart.

My late friend Andy Starr (for whom I named my son Andy) had a Weatherby Vanguard synthetic in .338 Win Mag that felt like a heavy loaded .30-06 to me. If I ever get anything big again, I will probably try to track down a Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic in .338 Win Mag.

 

[RL338]

I do know stock shape does change how recoil is felt. I changed out the stock on my 7mm RM Vanguard to a Stocky carbon fiber and you can tell the difference. Not that there is more recoil felt just the way it’s being presented.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I have shot hundreds upon hundreds of rounds through the 300 Wby. Braked, suppressed, Mag-Na-Ported and just a plain old barrel, I've shot them all.
Lead bullets, copper bullets... so far no plastic bullets.
I spent some time this fall working with 4 different 300 Win Mag rifles.
I also own a few 300WSMs, and a few 30-06s if you want to go down a step further.
When it comes to power, 300 Wby > 300 Win Mag > 300 WSM > 30-06, and each of the steps are about the same from one to the other. Changing just 1 level gets you very little in my experience.

If I were you I'd spend the money and buy a suppressor for your 300 Wby and not look back. They're legal to own in CT, which actually surprises me.
It will sound like a 22 Mag, recoil less than a 30-06, and kill anything you encounter. I love shooting mine this way
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of buying another rifle, but would note that unless you go 300 Wby -> 30-06 I'm not sure you will notice a huge change.

 

[PJGunner]

First off, I'd like to address the comment that it's difficult to download the .300 Win. Mag to a lower level. The following is from an article by the late John Wooters on that very subject.
Paul B.
STAIRSTEP LOADING THE MAGNUMS
From HANDLOADER MAGAZINE #44 July-August 1973---Article by John Wooters

.300 Win. Mag.
Bullet Weight: 30-06 .308 WCF 30-40 Krag 30-30
150 gr. 62.5 gr./4895 60.0 gr./4895 56.0 gr./4064 45.0 gr./4064

180 gr. 57.0 gr./3031 55.0 gr./4064 50.0 gr./4895


7MM Rem. Mag.
Bullet Weight: .280 Rem./ .284 WCF/7MM Express 7x57 Mauser
140 gr. 57.0 gr./4320 54.0 gr./4895

160 gr. 52.0 gr./4064 50.0 gr./4895

175 gr. 51.0 gr./4064 50.0 gr./4320


.358 Norma Magnum
Bullet Weight: .350 Rem. mag./.35 Whelen .358 Win.
200 gr. 59.0 gr./4064 53.0/3031

250 gr. 56.0 gr./4895 54.0 gr./3031


.458 Win. Mag.
Bullet Weight: 45/70
400 gr. 42.0 gr./4198

• 
  
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[PJGunner]

On the original question by the OP, pick whichever one suits you best. I've used the .300 Win. Mag in a Walmart special Winchester M70 and used it to take an elk way out yonder. I also have four Ruger #1s all in .300 Win. mag. All are sub MOS with my pet load.

Experience with the .300 WSM is rather thin. It boils down to helping a few sight their rifles in on sighting in day at the range to doing a full load work up for my son in law on his M70 Featherweight.
One such being helped was a college kid with his first deer rifle. His rifle was the full size classic sporter while most of the others ran featherweights. It was easy getting the kid's gun on target and then I had him shoot a bit to get used to the rifle. A bit of tweaking on the sight adjustment and he was good to go.
My son in law's gun was a whole different matter. One of his coworkers gave him the data for his favorite load and the SIL wanted that load and that load only. I forget the details other than the powder was IMR4831 and the bullet the 165 gr. Ballistic Tip. He brought the dies, powder, bullets and primers for me to do the job. I told him to leave the rifle and ammo as well. He was insistent the data was good and I said I trust no one's data, especially some someone I've never met. My way or the highway. He was not happy but agreed. As it turned out that load was OK but not quite what I'd have picked for a .300 Mag. of any type. I tried a few quick trials with 180 and 200 gr. loads and they show well from that rifle and liked the 180 gr. load the best. His rifle was the featherweight.

If I was looking for another .300 mag. I might give the WSM a thought in the FWT. I like the style and Winchester doesn't make the FWT in the .300 Win. Mag.

I've seen comments where the 7MM WSM is flat out dead in the water and not an awful lot on the .270 WSM. maybe it's floundering as well. That makes me think that even the .300 WSM make be on the downhill slide, just not as fast as the others. The .300 Win. Mag however has a long and steady head start so iI think it may hang around long past the demise of the WSM series of cartridges There is a reason why the old standards have hung on for such a long time.
Paul B.

 

[300WSM]

Well, since there is so much to consider between the winchester cartridges I think you should just go with the Grand daddy of them all, 300 HH.

Grandaddy is the word alright. Or as the saying goes...slow and sloppy.
The HandH is the slowest of the 30 magnums
A 30-06 with superformance powder...at least in Hornady's lab .. ..might be faster than the old holland and holland 30.

I like where your thinking is though.

I love a little nostalgia but is there anyone even chambering old man river these days (300 HandH)
I can't say the last time I even seen that round being offered by a new mfg

 

[300WSM]

I have spent so much time with both 30's (WSM and Win mag)over the years including the Weatherby version too.

My thoughts are...

First and foremost if you ask any shooter what size action they'd want in their dream gun and if they're being honest every single answer will be the short action.
Why not! It's lighter...it's stiffer. If we believe it is in fact more rigid then one has to conclude there can be an inherent accuracy advantage possibility.
Probable? Maybe. Possible? Again if you believe the action is more rigid then certainly possible. Less harmonics which of course we can't see nor have the equipment to measure. We are only armed with common sense in that something of the same material and same diameter if shorter will in fact be more rigid than it's equal but longer counterpart. Lighter rifle with perhaps even less recoil...at least perceived
Advantage 300WSM

Availability...of components.
We are really only talking about brass here and factory loaded rounds.
The WSM was not a fly by night flavor of the month and then disappeared type of "new thing"
It came out and was a hit. Three of them came out first. The 270, the 7mm and the 300. A few years later the 325 showed up.
That was 20 years ago and there were a lot of 300's and 270's sold. Ammo, arms, etc.
BUT...you just can't deny the 300 Win mag's tenure thus the availability of brass and factory loaded ammo is just more widely available.
Advantage 300 Win mag

Performance....
Many loads, in many rifles and many chronographs readings later and many groups small and wide..
The three 30 magnums are tough to beat in the 180 grain bullet weight flying over 3000 fps
To me the measure of any 30 cal is how it does with the 180 grain. Plenty of heft, energy, drift resistance, etc.
Present day there are some powders out there now that burn perfectly for the shorter, fatter column of the WSM.
These powders have brought out the very best in that cartridge.
Approaching 3100 fps and sometimes exceeding it with a 180 gr bullet.
The WBY is the fastest of the three.
That can't be disputed.
Between the WSM and the Win Mag is a wash. There are more powders to see velocities between 3050 and 3100 with the Win mag
BUT...BUT...there are some powders that work excellent in the WSM and will outperform the 300 WIN mag.
I've seen the WSM approach and exceed 3100 fps with a 24" bbl while the WIN MAG needs a 26" to do the same thing.
Personally I give the edge to the WSM and will only get better as new powders keep being made.


Overall...
The WBY is heavy. Fastest but the heaviest. Everything is just big with the WBY.
The WinMAG is king on availability. Weapons and ammo and components. It's everywhere.
The WSM puts out equal and sometimes even better performance than the WIn mag in a nice and tidy package with less felt recoil.

Couple other notes on the WSM
More rounds per pound of powder loaded..
Longer case life.
There are some WSM cases I have that I've lost count of firings. Shame on me I know but it's well over 10.
Can you confidently get more than ten firings out of a WIN MAG? Good luck with that one.

 

[PJGunner]

Grandaddy is the word alright. Or as the saying goes...slow and sloppy.
The HandH is the slowest of the 30 magnums
A 30-06 with superformance powder...at least in Hornady's lab .. ..might be faster than the old holland and holland 30.

I like where your thinking is though.

I love a little nostalgia but is there anyone even chambering old man river these days (300 HandH)
I can't say the last time I even seen that round being offered by a new mfg

Yes, but there is a reason for it being that way. As originally designed by H&H, the .300 H&H was meant to give 30-06 ballistics in hot places like Equatorial Africa and India. The cartridge was loaded with cordite which gave very high pressures in hot climates. It was Winchester who hotted the round up when they brought out the M70 in .300 and .375 H&H and produced ammo to feed the two. Note that the advertised velocity is something like 2800 FPS with 180 gr. bullet. I can do that with H4350 and a 180 gr. bullet from a Remington M700 with 22" barrel and beat it with a Ruger #1B with 26" barrel although not by much more.
Paul B.

 

[300WSM]

Yes, but there is a reason for it being that way. As originally designed by H&H, the .300 H&H was meant to give 30-06 ballistics in hot places like Equatorial Africa and India. The cartridge was loaded with cordite which gave very high pressures in hot climates. It was Winchester who hotted the round up when they brought out the M70 in .300 and .375 H&H and produced ammo to feed the two. Note that the advertised velocity is something like 2800 FPS with 180 gr. bullet. I can do that with H4350 and a 180 gr. bullet from a Remington M700 with 22" barrel and beat it with a Ruger #1B with 26" barrel although not by much more.
Paul B.

I know the why ....

But my question remains is anyone chamberimg that present day

 

[Dr. Vette]

Overall...
The WBY is heavy. Fastest but the heaviest. Everything is just big with the WBY.
The WinMAG is king on availability. Weapons and ammo and components. It's everywhere.
The WSM puts out equal and sometimes even better performance than the WIn mag in a nice and tidy package with less felt recoil.

That's quite the blanket statement.
One of our most accurate 300 Wby rifles is a Backcountry Ti which is a 5.6 lb rifle.
I'm not sure what's heavy about that.

Buy one of each and have fun.


I still say a suppressor would be your best investment, not a new rifle.

 

[300WSM]

That's quite the blanket statement.
One of our most accurate 300 Wby rifles is a Backcountry Ti which is a 5.6 lb rifle.
I'm not sure what's heavy about that.

Buy one of each and have fun.


I still say a suppressor would be your best investment, not a new rifle.

Good point...
I figured someone with your experience and expertise would've known I was referring to the Mark V Deluxe. Especially since I said it was heavy

I should've specified though because you're right since "the day" many platforms have chambered that beast.

 

[300WSM]

I still say a suppressor would be your best investment, not a new rifle.

would you say the same if the rifle was a Mark V Dlx ?

I'm about hunting open country but a borderline cumbersome platform just became even more so, no?

 

[Dr. Vette]

would you say the same if the rifle was a Mark V Dlx ?

I'm about hunting open country but a borderline cumbersome platform just became even more so, no?

There have been so many Mark V variations that I couldn't begin to guess which one you currently own.

The last 2 years I hunted with an SLS, which has a heavier laminate stock.
You can always change stocks to save weight if you really wanted. There are 2 versions of those available.
As noted in Preacher's recent 338 thread, lighter weight rifles are also more difficult to hold steady, so there is give and take in putting your rifle on a diet.

 

[300WSM]

There have been so many Mark V variations that I couldn't begin to guess which one you currently own.

The last 2 years I hunted with an SLS, which has a heavier laminate stock.
You can always change stocks to save weight if you really wanted. There are 2 versions of those available.
As noted in Preacher's recent 338 thread, lighter weight rifles are also more difficult to hold steady, so there is give and take in putting your rifle on a diet.

Ok...
But you didn't answer my question.

This is on the OP's 300 WBY, not mine.

That said, if the OP'S rifle were a Mark V Deluxe, do you still stand behind the suppressor suggestion.

A Mark V can be cumbersome to many shooters without a suppressor and adding such certainly makes it even more so.
I see you mention changing stocks...
But now we're in the money of a good suppressor, the monies for a stock if that was your implication of a heavier Mark V and lightening it..

Thus now we're approaching or possibly exceeding a good used rifle and close to a new one....in something that will be very long...

Don't get me wrong we don't know what rifle the OP has but IMO I wouldn't add anything additional to a Mark V Deluxe.

I'd either dumb down the WBY or get a nice used Made in USA Winchester in 300wsm with a 24" bbl.
Stay away from the CRPF guns with internal mag

Pre 64 action CRF only, drop floor plate.

 

[TexasLife]

264wm has been my preference since '76 (11 years old) and 38 or 39 years later went with 300wm. i only have 2 short mags (6.5prc & 7saum) which are in AR's. you CAN tune a lot of recoil OUT (felt or not) in that platform which makes them great to shoot! you asked about 2 different cartridges, but left out needed info.............weight options of the firearm, barrel length and use?

weight options
if using a brake to tame recoil you can go 8# and lighter with a wm, but heavier there's not a need (maybe just a preference).
a medium/xm action will make the wsm shine if you so choose heavier bullets than the 180's.

barrel lengths
if going 18-22" barrels, go wsm as there's not much performance gain for the extra powder used in the wm.
24" is kind of a wash between the 2 as this is the point where long mags shine with longer than 24" barrels.

use
hunting, distance with equal length barrels goes to wm for specific energy/velocity needed for the projectile to function/expand properly.
range/paper punching, it doesn't make any difference except in powder cost as you'll use 10-15 grains less.


these are purely my views as i haven't reloaded for any short mags yet. my 6.5prc in an AR is great and feels like i'm shooting 223rem. i'm able to keep eyes on target under recoil (what little there is) @ 15 yards on 1 power (1-10x28).