338 EDGE/ funny range results

[remingtonman_25_06]

I recently worked up a load with the 215g SGK from my custom built 338 EDGE. Did this about a week ago. 102.8g of H1000, rem case, cci 250, 3.720" 3450fps, 3 shots at 100 yards .45" 101.8g shot .8" Now these groups were worked up with fireformed brass and a dirty barrel that hadn't been cleaned in probly 75 rounds, as you can see, still shooting great. I'm at the point where I only clean my guns when they show accuracy loss.

Well anyways, I went home and loaded up 8 shells of that 102.8g of H1000 load and with virgin brass this time around. I also cleaned my barrel. The HART barrel cleaned up very well, within a few patches with some Hoppes BR copper solvent and it was clean.

Went out the next day and figured of course the 1st shot would be out of the group with the squeaky clean barrel. Figured the next 2 would cut each other, indeed they did not!! The 3 shot group now including the 1st fouler was 2.3" the shots are numbered, #2 and #3 were about 1.5" apart. Thought it was me, had a late night didn't get much sleep. Shot my 22-250 a few loads trying to find the sweet spot with seating depth. Got back to the 338 EDGE and figured it had 3 rounds down it, it should be pretty much settled in. Aimed at the middle square and fired 2 shot group #4 and #5. Once again, not good! 1.5" for 2 shots, didn't even need to shoot the 3rd. I had 3 more shells left and decided to try my luck at the 625 yard gong at the range I was shooting at. Dialed up 9 MOA and let the 3 fly. The group was a horrible at around a foot.

Both days the conditions were very good, bout 5 mph wind coming right to left, and shot off a leadsled.

So this got me thinking the only 2 variables that I changed was #1, I used new virgin brass, and #2 I cleaned my barrel.

I dont think its the barrel being clean. It shoudln't take more then 1-2 shots to settle down after being cleaned. Never noticed it with the 300g SMK's, but never ran into this problem either.

Am I right to think the virgin brass is the culprit??

I dont recall seeing that big a difference in group size from new brass vs. fire formed brass in every other rifle I have loaded for.

Your guys thoughts would be appreciated.

First outing, fireformed brass, dirty barrel, = good groups

Secong outing, new brass, clean barrel, = horrible groups

 

[FOTIS]

Talk dirty to me.....says the song! :lol:

 

[Greg Nolan]

One way to find out. reload some of the fireformed and compare to virgin brass. In my fireformed brass vs. virgin I noticed the case length and capicity to be different . You may have trimmed to the same length as virgin so that may not be a factor if you didn't It could change your release point from the neck (seating depth) and or pressure curve.
Greg

 

[DrMike]

For what it is worth, I've had some serious problems with quality control in Remington brass recently. Perhaps the company is releasing some poor batches. It is serious enough that one fellow refused to permit me to use Rem brass for load development because he is worried that he will have to use it later. I could not convince him to go ahead with the project. He is waiting until we can get in brass from another manufacturer.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

POP- That very well could be true. I"m just gonna see how it progresses with how many shots are down the pipe.

Greg- Thats what I was going to do. Load up a few more with the fireformed cases. The virgin brass was trimmed to the same length as the FF brass, so I can rule that out. Case capacity could be an issue, but I dont see how it would be that much to go from .45" to 2" groups. Plus its only going from a 300 RUM to 338 EDGE which is identical, its not like I'm blowing it out to an ackley or anything to really effect the case capacity, know what I mean??

DrMike- I know Rem brass isn't the best, actually its probly some of the worst, but I've really never had a problem with this 300 RUM brass. This stuff was bought 2-3 years ago for our 300 RUMs. I've also used Rem brass quite a bit in my 25-06 and 7 RM and no trouble with accuracy or case life.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I'll vote neck tension with the soft cases, or possibly thinner cases making less pressure with the same load. did you chrony them?
RR

 

[blacktailhunter]

I'll bet that it is a barrel that is too clean.

 

[old #7]

How about both variables.
Virgin brass always shoots different than fire formed and also clean barrels shoot different than dirty.
Consistancy is the key component when loading for accuracy. You threw out all of it when you shot virgin brass through a clean barrel.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Remmy, How many rounds through the tube?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Total rounds down barrel is about 170.

Its just got me thinking it has to be the clean barrel and it just hasn't settled in yet.

The only reason I think this is because when I first worked up my 300g SMK loads with of course new brass, they still shot .4-.5". With FF brass they are the same. I just dont see how FF loads without an improved chamber would make that big of difference.

Although I dont recall ever having to put more then 2-3 rounds downrange from a clean barrel to get my accuracy back with a number of other rifles and thats with factory barrels. I only put those 8 rounds through it so far since I cleaned it. Maybe not enough to come up with a solid conclusion yet.

Everything is tight, action screws, base/rings.

First time out the chrony was reading 3450fps, second time out it was reading 3415fps.

Same can of H1000.

 

[JD338]

Remmy,

I think it is a brass issue, not a barrel issue. Those Hart barrels shoot pretty good. My 338 RUM has a factory barrel ans she shoots pretty good with a clean barrel. The first shot has a black ring from the oil.

JD338