338WM/264WM in 95* F heat!

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
32,533
3,499
Well, I went out today and tried to work up some loads for the 338WM. It was 95* and a heat index of 105! After getting the scope close to center with some stand by 225gr Hornady SST loads, using 76gr's of RL19, I tried the 250gr PT's, 73gr's RL22, CCI250's and Nosler cases. Well, they ran 2780, 2760, and 2754 across the chrono. I had stiff bolt lift and extractor marks on the cases. This was my starting load. Needless to say, I didn't push any further. Accuracy was decent, not great, but okay.

DSC_2586.jpg


Well, since those were too hot, I decided to try the RL19 loads I had loaded up. My starting load was 250gr PT's, 71gr's, CCI250's, and Nosler cases. They went 2783, 2790, and 2765. Pretty good speed, but again, this was starting loads. Again, had sticky extraction and marks on the cases. Never went any higher than those, but again, accuracy was very decent for the heat state I was shooting in.

DSC_2585.jpg


I tried to shoot the 264WM with the 66.5gr load of RL22 and again, that was a no go. I shot the first round as a fouler, and then the second. Both were sticky and had a speed of 3280. I never fired another one of them. Extractor marks on the cases in both rounds.

I did however try my "known good" load. Which is a 225gr SST, 76gr of RL19, WW cases, and CCI250's. That load clocked 2876, 2880, 2889 for three shots and shot a sub inch group. I decided to take it back to 250 and see what it did at 250 yards. No real reason I picked 250, but I just wanted to see what they shot like.

My buddy shot the first 2. Here is his target.

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I saw those and said, I need to try and shot these next two. I made a dope change between the two rounds so I would still have to tune it, but man, they show a ton of potential.

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Overall, the rifle will shoot! The new B&C stock is well worth the money. I only shot two at 250 just cause it was so darned hot and I was getting tired of waiting for the barrel to cool. I really think the PT's will shoot just as well as the SST's, just need to rework the loads. I might try some H4831 and H4350 out. I need to get something a little more temp stable in order to do load work here in Northern Va. I don't really have an option of waiting for cooler weather and need to shoot when I can. I think those loads would have been fine had the temp been 10* cooler, but during this stinking Va heat, they aren't cutting it. Anyhow, the rifle is shooting well with that B&C stock and the groups stay put, even with a hot barrel. Mission accomplished in my book. Plus, the rifle just looks way cooler! Scotty
 
That SST load does indeed show the potential to generate bragging loads. The pressure indicators on your starting loads with the 250 grain PT are not unheard of. Obviously, you can drop back in charge and work up, which would give you a good indication of what is happening. Your velocities are higher than I would have predicted with QL, indicating higher pressure. I can't help but wonder if this is a temperature related pressure spike.
 
DrMike":2j20el1k said:
That SST load does indeed show the potential to generate bragging loads. The pressure indicators on your starting loads with the 250 grain PT are not unheard of. Obviously, you can drop back in charge and work up, which would give you a good indication of what is happening. Your velocities are higher than I would have predicted with QL, indicating higher pressure. I can't help but wonder if this is a temperature related pressure spike.

Mike, glad you said that. I think I am going to get some H4350 and H4831 for the 338WM. I really like RL19, but the extreme heat here in the South really seems to have spiked something I haven't ever seen in the past. I really didn't expect this at all. I was storing ammo in the shade and the rifles in the shade also. I just think the extra heat was not liked by either rifle with the RL series. Never had a problem in the cold, but now I see the heat is a kink I will have to work through. I can either drop back further and work up with RL19/22 or switch to a powder less likely to change as much. I'm also using Nosler brass, which is of less internal volume, so that may be an issue also. I could be seeing a combo of both heat and starting loads for Win case type loads? Don't know. Not sure which direction to go just yet. RL15 had 0 issues with the heat and that load is fairly warm I would think. Scotty
 
thats double base powders for ya, if I shoot my 7mm AM at 95 degrees the bolt won't open till you put the gun in the truck with the AC on high, must be a fast lot of RE22 its bad for that also.
RR
 
Bear in mind that ten percent lot-to-lot variation in burn rate is not unheard of. You may have a hot lot. This has been the appeal of the Extreme powders developed by ADI and marketed here in NA by Hodgdon.
 
Ridge_Runner":2m1s2xr0 said:
thats double base powders for ya, if I shoot my 7mm AM at 95 degrees the bolt won't open till you put the gun in the truck with the AC on high, must be a fast lot of RE22 its bad for that also.
RR

RR, you got me there. I have been resisting using Retumbo for the 264 as I use alot of RL22 for my other cartridges, but I think the 264WM running as it does would warrant a little more temp stable. Besides, I am pretty sure 20 people told me to try it, as it does well with the 264. I am just too much of a knucklehead to listen sometimes!

I like the RL powders, they seem to be very accurate and work well in most cartridges for me. First time since I have been in the South this problem has happened. I may change up powders a little and see what comes out. Scotty
 
scotty, when I first had my 6.5 built, the builder swore by RE-22, it is fast for the most part, and usualy accurate, but its a double based powder, the nitroglycerin in double based powders make it temp sensative, and on my third pound of re-22 in the gibbs, I noticed one day my drop charts were off by 11" at 830 yards, so first thing I checked was the MV, was 3120 fps with 61 gr behind a 140, the first 2# averaged 3325-3340 with the same charge, for most shooting thats ok, but with barrel burners, which your using for long range, its just not feasable to rework the load every lot change of powder. I have switched to retumbo in the gibbs, single didget ES's are the norm and though a bit temp sensative (all powders are to a point) its better than any double based powder I have tried. a bit slower but more consistant throughout the temp range from groundhog to deer season.
RR
 
Not bad considering the heat scotty, I'll take those anyday. Glad that new stock is working out for you, it does add some sex appeal to the rifle as well :)

I shot a lot of RL22 in my 7 mag with 140g NBTs and I didn't have the winter/summer problem as I worked the load up in the summer to begin with. It did however drop around 100fps in the winter. It was unreal accurate either way.

I have been on the Hodgon extreme series kick for the last few years though. I figure between H4350, H4831, H1000, and Retumbo, you can find a good stable load for just about anything from the 243 on up through the RUMs.
 
Jorey, your much smarter than I for sticking with H-Extreme powders. I just haven't ever had an issue with them. I may try something else and see what it likes. Although, I am thinking if I just back down some, I should be okay also. Just trying to figure out these Nosler cases. I have used WW for a long time, trying to get a feeling for the Nosler stuff. Scotty
 
Scotty,

Consider leaving those two big booming hunting rigs alone until the OAT is near the actual conditions you'll be hunting in.

Unless your going after hogs or something down south, I dont think your involved in a practical application of time and resources..

Just a thought...
 
Your probably right Rod, but living in the South, I need to shoot when I can. I can't really afford to wait for cooler temps or it would be November before I got any real shooting done. I think I may need to invest in some kind of shade structure for my shooting area.

Just pulled the bullets from the 338 and 264WM's this morning. I think I am going to try out Retumbo in the 264WM and probably drop back some with the 338 and reshoot. I will look for cooler weather next time. Scotty
 
Scotty, I've run into the problems your experiencing during the Florida summer months. I've worked up loads for my .300 short mag and my .338RUM during the cooler months and when the temp starts getting around the high 80's to 90's I start seeing the shiny marks and tough bolt lift. I use mainly IMR4831, IMR4350 and RL22. A change over to Hogdons extreme powders might be the solution however the accuracy I'm experiencing with the aforementioned powders makes me very hesitant to change anything.
 
Same BRM.. I have thought about that also. Not sure which direction to go just yet. I think the 264WM will get Retumbo, but I am not sure which way to go for the 338WM. The 35 Whelen with RL15 seems really unaffected by it all. Not sure. I will figure it out and make it work, just don't wanna burn tons of powder to make it right. I might grab a can of H4831 and see what it does in the 338WM with the 250's. Seems like a great powder looking at Noslers #6 data. Scotty
 
Nicely done, Scotty. That heat is here in Alabama as well and exactly why I don't plan to shoot this weekend. It might melt my barrel. :grin:
 
You guys are talking high heat and I'm sitting here watching snow flurries.

Scotty, I use a 10'x10' EZ-UP canopy when I shoot in the heat of summer or winter rain/snow, Works well.
Guy it out and it performs well in moderate winds. Easy enough to set it up by myself.
They can be found on sale for around $60.00
 
Randy, I am thinking that would be a great idea for my shooting here in Va. Seems like it is either sunshine or rain. Nothing really inbetween! Scotty
 
velvetant":340u6jj3 said:
You guys are talking high heat and I'm sitting here watching snow flurries.

Scotty, I use a 10'x10' EZ-UP canopy when I shoot in the heat of summer or winter rain/snow, Works well.
Guy it out and it performs well in moderate winds. Easy enough to set it up by myself.
They can be found on sale for around $60.00

LOL, this is irony at it's best.....I told him the same thing in an email mid-day yesterday.....
 
I am going to go to Target/Dicks/Walmart today and look for a canopy. Great idea fellers. Scotty
 
Thanks Tom. I am going to go take a look at them. Scotty
 
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