35 Whelen, RL-15, 225 gr partitions HELP???

[nerosrevenge]

Hi all.

I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on the following.

I am working up a load for my Whelen.

Rifle is a Remington 700.

I am using factory brass & Winchester LR primers.

The issue that I am having is that the speeds that I am getting are significantly below what is advertised on the Nosler website.

I am only getting an average of 2500 fps out of a 225 grains Partition with 59 grains of RL-15!

That's around 200 fps slower than it should be.

Any thoughts??

Thank you,

Steve

 

[DrMike]

Steve,

Welcome to the forum; it is good to have you aboard.

First, don't discount 2500 fps with a 225 grain Partition; that is a lot of horsepower (3122 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). Whilst it is less velocity than would have been projected, your chamber may be slightly larger than that used in the Nosler tests. The other factor to take into consideration is that your lot of powder, primers, brass and/or bullets may contribute to a loss of velocity. If you are comfortable doing so, you can increase your charge in small increments (say one grain, or even 0.5 grain increments), watching for pressure signs as you build velocity. As you do this, you may have better accuracy, or you may observe accuracy being degraded. Your rifle will tell you what it likes. I'd rather have the accuracy than the velocity, so long as the velocity is within reason, and as I stated, your velocity is still delivering quite a bit of energy. Let us know what you decide.

 

[RiverRider]

I would be curious as to what chronograph you used, and whether it's possible the lighting conditions had some effect on chronograph performance. I have seen erroneous performance late in the day when the sun is approaching the horizon.

 

[SJB358]

I wouldn't discount a slow lot of powder. I had the same thing with my Whelen. All previous loads with 61 grains of RL15 netted me 2730 or so with the 225 AB. I bought my last lb of RL15 and speeds are in the mid 2500's. Hopefully, the next 5lb jug of powder is the same as the old stuff, but that is a ton of speed loss. Saw the same thing with the 308 Winchester / 165 AB's, and the recent load for my 338WM should have been up near the mid 2900's, whereas the chrono showed high 2700's... Hopefully it isn't a complete pattern for RL15 as it works really well for me in alot of cartridges.

 

[dlove]

59gr of RL 15 with 225 NAB produced 2590fps in my rifle. I don't think you are too far off. ...but I thought mine was a little slow too.


SJB358, do you have a lot# on the "slow" powder? maybe its the same stuff I've been using. =P

 

[SJB358]

I will go and check it out.

 

[JD338]

It could be a slow lot of powder.

As a side note, 59.5 grs RL 15 with the 250 gr PT is turning 2584 fps from my 22" barreled 35 Whelen.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

I did not realize there might be that much variation with RE15. I looked at the Nosler manual and several things were noted. They used a 24" barrel with a 1 in 12" twist and the Remington M700 has a 22" barrel with a 1 in 16" twist. Now 2" of barrel shouldn't make all that much difference but could 4" faster twist have something to do with it? My custom 30-06 Mauser has a 1 in 12" twist and will take hotter loads than my other 30-06 with the standard 1 in 10" twist so maybe that could be a part of the problem Combine that with a potentially slower lot of powder and that could explain the velocity difference.
My .35 Whelen has a 24" 1 in 14" twist and I use 60.4 gr. of RE15 for 2710 FPS and the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. I haven't tried that load in my Remingtom M700 but it might bear looking into.
I did do a load work up for the Maauser, the M700 and a Ruger M77RS, all chambered to the .35 Whelen using Paco Kelly's load of 53.0 gr. of H335. Bullets used were the 250 gr. Speer hot core and Hornady 250 gr. round nose and spire point. Interesting results were one, velocity was relatively even for all three loads in all three rifles with the Mauser with 1 in 14" twist giving the highest speed with all three bullets. The Mauser averaged 2550 FPS while the Remington and Ruger were 2500 and 2510FPS. In all cases, my 30-06 with the 1 in 12" vs the standard 1 in 10" and the Mauser's 1 in 14" vs the Remington and Ruger's 1 in 16" twists responsible for the velocity difference? I dunno but I do think that might have something to do with it.
Anyone else have any thoughts along those lines?
Paul B.

 

[sask boy]

Welcome Steve, I know that you are going to enjoy this group of guys and a second welcome to the 35 Whelen club.
I have a new custom 35 Whelen with a 24" barrel and a 1-14 twist and I am using RL-15 powder. I am shooting 60.0grs of powder under a 225gr. AB. I am averaging just over 2700fps.
I am having a little trouble adjusting. Yesterday I figured I needed to shoot a yote and my nephew ranged it 314 yards. I figured being a 1 1/4" high @ 100 and shooting a 225gr bullet I better just give him daylight over the back. I fired and was just the daylight over his back high. I don't think speed plays as big a roll as we think it does with new powders and the bullet designs of today .
A little shorter barrel and the possibility of a large chamber with a slow lot of powder could change the speed by quite abit.
The speed is nice but accuracy is what it is about what is the MOA of your rifle?

Blessings,
Dan

 

[nerosrevenge]

Hi All.

Thank you for the welcomes, and the insight.

I will continue working on the load and keep you posted.

Steve

 

[FOTIS]

Welcome Steve,
If you get a chance give TAC a try

 

[Guest]

Welcome Steve to the Forum.

My 35 Whelen is a Rem 700 Classic, 22" Barrel.
My Load:
59.5 RL-15
225 AB
Rem. re-sized cases
CCI-200 Primer
2677 fps

I can tell you I used the same recipe and inserted 225 Partitions that shot very well but they ran slower at 2580-2600 fps.

Don

 

[Oldtrader3]

Welcome Steve. The labs for the bullet companies are using loads under carefuly controlled conditions which often do not meet my my chrono'ed results as well. The loads and velocities sometimes don't match and I have several loads which I have used safely for years which are 2-4 grains over Nosler loads.

I guess after 50 years of never blowing anything up and being very controlled in my approach to increasing loads, I have become less sensitive to published loads and more atuned to my chrono and its data peaks and valleys. I just test and use what works for my firearm.

 

[BK]

I did not realize there might be that much variation with RE15. I looked at the Nosler manual and several things were noted. They used a 24" barrel with a 1 in 12" twist and the Remington M700 has a 22" barrel with a 1 in 16" twist.

Good info, Paul, but I think the Remington CDLs came with 24" tubes, Classics with 22".

 

[PJGunner]

I did not realize there might be that much variation with RE15. I looked at the Nosler manual and several things were noted. They used a 24" barrel with a 1 in 12" twist and the Remington M700 has a 22" barrel with a 1 in 16" twist.

Good info, Paul, but I think the Remington CDLs came with 24" tubes, Classics with 22".

My point was I was thinking the 4" difference in twist rate might be what was making the difference. My 1 in 12" twist 30-06 will take a bit more powder than the 1 in 10" standard twist for the 30-06. AFAIK, the CDLs still use the 1 in 16" twist. I do know that my 1 in12" 06 shows hardly any pressure signs with loads that cause very stiff bolt lift in the standard twist rifle.
I am thinking of doing another .35 Whelen build using a very nice Husqvarna FN style action and this one will have a 1 in 12" twist. Just have to scrounge up the cash to git-R-done. :lol:
Paul B.

 

[Oldtrader3]

You are correct about the inertial buildup being higher for a faster twist. That higher inertial buildup value does slow acceration somewhat for an instant in the throat of the barrel with the faster twist FWIW.

 

[nerosrevenge]

Hi Fotis.

Forgive my ignorance but what is TAC?

 

[DrMike]

TAC is a powder marketed by Ramshot. It is a double-base spherical propellant developed as a medium burn rate powder. It is an excellent powder for 308 based cartridges, including such cartridges as the 243 and 358. It also works quite well, especially with light for calibre bullets in 30-06 based cartridges, among others.

http://www.ramshot.com/

http://www.ramshot.com/products/rifle/? ... roduct=TAC