.358 winchester

[TCOmega45]

I just acquired (for a ridiculously low price) a brand new Browning BLR in .358 winchester. The rifle is stainless/laminate. I was in my regular gun shop and they had special ordered it for a customer who got denied on his NICS check and they cut me a heckuva deal. I have always been a bolt action guy but have always thought about getting a lever gun. Since I am a big stainless fan, this seemed to fit the bill. I took the gun home and pulled off the sights (hate iron sights) and put on a Leupold VXIII 2.5-8X36 matte black scope. Now that I am all set up, I am wondering if anyone has any favorite loads out there for this caliber. I am thinking that this will make a great gun for a couple of places where I hunt deer that the shots are 50-100 yards in the thick stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Alaska]

The iron sights do not get in the way of a scope on a BLR.

As, for loads the 220 Speer FN would make a excellent bullet for deer.

220 Speer FN @ 45.0 grains IMR 4064

Fed 210 Match primers in WW cases.

Good 250 yard gun!

This is my personal load!

 

[FOTIS]

Try IMR 4064 and 748 with 200-250 gr bullets. You have a spectacular killer there and it is good up to 300 yards or so. I have killed antelope with the 225 Sierra out here in Wyoming with no problems at all. :lol:

 

[Alaska]

358 WINCHESTER
BROWNING BLR - 20" barrel

These loads not warranted safe in any other rifles - read disclaimer above


29/SR4759
200 Hornady spire
no crimp
2.700 COAL
2150, 2117, 2102fps
----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up RP308 brass, OK pressures, no pin extrusion, good extraction
try a half grain more for a light deer load


43.5/AA2015BR
very slight powder shaking
225 Sierra BT
no crimp
2.780 COAL
2418, 2415fps
----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin


43/AA2015BR
powder shakes slightly
225 Ballistic Tip
no crimp
2.950 COAL
cut back polymer tip to fit magazine
2424, 2421fps
----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin


40.5/AA2015BR
powder shakes slightly
250 HornadyRN
Old stock (pre intelock)
no crimp
2.795 COAL
2157, 2164, 2185fps
----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Fed308 brass, OK pressures, slight pin extrusion, primers still rounded


47/H4895
225 Partition
2510fps
----ft.lbs
- not my load and have not tried it
- source is Layne Simpson
- his fav for his Win. mod. 88 lever gun in 358


51/IMR 4895
225 Sierra SPBT
2550 fps +/-
Measured velocity
----ft.lbs
- treat as over max
- not my load and have not tried it
JohnnyJ's fav
Browning BLR with 20" bbl
Win 358 brass
WLRM primers

 

[Guy Miner]

You've got yourself a good one! Don't consider it a 100 yard deer gun... That .358 is very under-rated.

A good buddy of mine has killed over a dozen elk with his .358 Win/Browning BLR - mostly with one shot each. Also a few black bear and mule deer as he happened upon them while elk hunting.

He's had good success with the good old 250 grain Speer, and also with the 225 Nosler as I recall. Doesn't seem to matter much, he puts that thick .358" bullet into their vitals, and the elk fall over pretty quickly. He's shot 'em out over 200 yards a few times. 600+ pound elk fall readily, deer are simply not a problem. Don't expect to recover bullets. :grin:

I've got a .308 BLR in the safe that has been a dandy rifle... Have often thought it would be even better in .358 Win...

BTW - that 2.5-8x Leupold is a wonderful hunting scope.

Regards, Guy

 

[Jeff Olsen]

I just acquired (for a ridiculously low price) a brand new Browning BLR in .358 winchester. Since I am a big stainless fan, this seemed to fit the bill. I took the gun home and pulled off the sights (hate iron sights) and put on a Leupold VXIII 2.5-8X36 matte black scope. Now that I am all set up, I am wondering if anyone has any favorite loads out there for this caliber. I am thinking that this will make a great gun for a couple of places where I hunt deer that the shots are 50-100 yards in the thick stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Congratulations and welcome to the cult of .358! I started with a BLR, then liked it so much I got my main blacktial rifle, a Model 7, rebarreled to .358. It is simply perfect. I also have a 2.5x8 on mine. It really knocks deer down decisively without wrecking much meat.

The thing that will drive you nuts with .358 is case capacity. Even with book max compressed loads of I3031 and I4895, velocity was not happening for me and I was crushing case shoulders trying to seat the bullets on top of all that powder.

I have found what I think is the SHIT for .358 Winchester and 200-gn bullets, and it's RL7. However, I won't tell you my loads because they are WAAAAY over book maximums. I don't have an explanation for it, but I am able to get 2620 fps with 200-gn bullets with RL7. My brass lasts indefinately (18 loads and counting), and the primers are almost perfectly round after firing, extraction is light and easy. So if you are an experienced reloader, you could try what I did and keep adding RL7 and watching carefully for pressure signs. You may find that you can get great velocity and no apparant pressure problems at loads that are much higher than the books say. Or, you may blow yourself up listening to my crazy-ass advice, so be careful if you decide to try this.

Oh, what makes it an interesting thing is that you won't run out of case capacity with RL7.

You will also find that bullet selection is poor. As far as I know, it is this:

200-gn Corelokt, kind of hard to get;
200-gn Hornady Interlock;
225-gn AccuBond (soon);
225-gn Partition;
180, 200, and 225-gn Barnes X-bullets. Won't shoot for me.
A 175-gn and 225-gn Sierra. Accurate in my rifle. Scary for hunting.

and that's about it! You will note the lack of anything resembling a premium 200-gn bullet. OTOH, is it really necessary?

Enjoy your new rifle! I have a BLR in .325 WSM and it's a great rifle. My .358 BLR was a good rifle, too.

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

I just acquired (for a ridiculously low price) a brand new Browning BLR in .358 winchester. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I forgot to mention, that any serious shooter should send their BLR off to Neil Jones for an expensive trigger job. He can make that crappy trigger break at about 3 pounds fairly crisply- good enough anyway and so much better than factory that it's insane. The factory BLR trigger is an abomination.

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

The iron sights do not get in the way of a scope on a BLR.
!

\

Not true! I had to take them off my .325 WSM BLR in order to get my 2.5x8 scope low enough to work right with the comb of the stock.

-jeff

 

[Savage99]

Welcome to the forum TC.

I used the 200 gr Silvertip on whitetails to 200 yds from the 358 Win. since 1966. When I could not get that bullet anylonger as a component I started using the 180 Speer ahead of IMR's 4198 and now I am using RL 10.

I did shoot one deer, and an easy broadside in the ribs it was, with the 200 gr RN Hornady and it ran way too far. They drop faster than anything with the 180 Speer. Recoil is a little less too.

I never liked heavy, slow, tough bullets for deer.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Welcome to the forum TC.

I used the 200 gr Silvertip on whitetails to 200 yds from the 358 Win. since 1966. When I could not get that bullet anylonger as a component I started using the 180 Speer ahead of IMR's 4198 and now I am using RL 10.

I did shoot one deer, and an easy broadside in the ribs it was, with the 200 gr RN Hornady and it ran way too far. They drop faster than anything with the 180 Speer. Recoil is a little less too.

I never liked heavy, slow, tough bullets for deer.

I'm using the spire point Hornady 200-gn. Here's a photo of the exit wound on my little buck this year:

It really put a hole through that deer! Dang thing ran about 150 yards, though.

Ever run the Speer through a chrono? I might have to try that out! You get good exit wounds?

-jeff

 

[Alaska]

too much meat damage.......I suggest go to less explosive bullet.

the Barnes TSX 200 gr.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

too much meat damage.......I suggest go to less explosive bullet.

the Barnes TSX in 180 or 200 gr.

Of course, I lost no meat to speak of with that shot... but I hear you, if that'd gone in one shoulder and out the other, who knows. The entrance wound on the above deer was not bad or anything. In fact, I LIKE that exit wound- that's a big, fat bullet that caught a rib on the way out. It's not the sign of an exploded bullet. I think.

Also in defense of the bullet, that shot was at 20 yards. I killed another deer this year with the same load (200-gn Hornady Interlock at a MV of 2620 fps) at about 65 yards and it was much more of a "normal" entry/exit wound.

The irony of me defending a Hornady bullet is funny... I don't trust them, you hear of too many problems, and I wouldn't be using it except in a moderate velocity cartridge AND because I really have no other choice in a 200-gn bullet. If Nosler will make me a 220-gn AccuBond, I am all OVER it.

I tried the 200-gn Barnes X, several boxes of them, and never could get a load that shot! Still have half a box. Maybe I'll buy a box of the 180 TSX's and try them... maybe. I've spent so damn much money on Barnes bullets and never gotten a load that worked... so it's kind of frustrating and it dis-inclines me to try the dang things again!

-jeff

 

[Alaska]

Barnes makes a 200 TSX that should be perfect, I like TSX much bestter than the old X bullet.........one for for sure make sure your barrel is super clean before using Barnes Bullets.......made a big diffenece in mine.

Never liked the Hornady Interlock......the interbond are much better if you like Hornady bullets.

They have not come out yet with a .358 180gr TSX.......maybe soon!

 

[NoKnees]

I think that the 200G TSX looks like a great bullet for the 358. Another bullet I will try in my new 358 (once it gets back from the builder) is the 200g North Fork. A third option is the 180 HG Partition.

As for the Hornady 200g spire. Its the bullet I used in my old BLR on maybe 15-20 deer over the past 20 years. Its not a bad bullet, but I suspect that it was designed with the Whelen and 350 rem mag in mind. I seem to get pass throughs with it almost all the time including double shoulder shots and angled shots. Its never come apart on me, but it also doesn't seem to yield many bang flops unless I hit the deer in the shoulder. (I try to put bullets behind the shoulder in the lungs if possible- the bowhunters shot). Its a tough little bullet. I have shot 200g round noses (sierras) and they are softer than the hornady and seem to kill more impressively(not nessesarly any surer, just faster) but they have a misserable BC and I had one not exit the far shoulder.

My personal goal for a whitetail bullet in 358 win is a bullet that opens easily, does good damage, yet exits reliably in case you need to follow an animal.
my guess is that a 200g AccuBond would just fit the bill.

 

[FOTIS]

my guess is that a 200g AccuBond would just fit the bill.

+100 :lol:

 

[Jeff Olsen]

I think that the 200G TSX looks like a great bullet for the 358. Another bullet I will try in my new 358 (once it gets back from the builder) is the 200g North Fork. A third option is the 180 HG Partition.

As for the Hornady 200g spire. Its the bullet I used in my old BLR on maybe 15-20 deer over the past 20 years. Its not a bad bullet, but I suspect that it was designed with the Whelen and 350 rem mag in mind. I seem to get pass throughs with it almost all the time including double shoulder shots and angled shots. Its never come apart on me, but it also doesn't seem to yield many bang flops unless I hit the deer in the shoulder. (I try to put bullets behind the shoulder in the lungs if possible- the bowhunters shot). Its a tough little bullet. I have shot 200g round noses (sierras) and they are softer than the hornady and seem to kill more impressively(not nessesarly any surer, just faster) but they have a misserable BC and I had one not exit the far shoulder.

My personal goal for a whitetail bullet in 358 win is a bullet that opens easily, does good damage, yet exits reliably in case you need to follow an animal.
my guess is that a 200g AccuBond would just fit the bill.

Thanks for the good info!

The length of the Barnes bullet is a bummer; the 180 might be better for me. I like to keep the speed in the 2600 range and the 200-gn Barnes makes that tough due to how much room it takes up in the case... On that note, I think I've mentioned this on this thread but if not, RL7 is a fabulous powder for .358- I've had much better luck with it than with the .358 ol' faithfuls 3031 and 4895. RL7 is the stuff of choice for using light pistol bullets and I found than *in my rifle* I am able to greatly exceed the max loads in the books and get great velocity with 200's as well.

Do you know any more about the North Fork? Is it a "tough" bullet?

My goal is the same as yours. I built my .358 (20" Pac-Nor Supermatch barrel on a Model 7 stainless action) with that in mind- pass throughs, good blood trails, and ideally bang-flops. Of the four deer I've killed with 358, 3 of them made it about a yard... vertically! The fourth is the one in the picture above.

I can't post about the .358 without once again begging Nosler for a 200-gn AccuBond- it would be the perfect bullet.

-jeff

 

[NoKnees]

I haven't tried the North Fork yet. I will this comming summer. On the North Fork site they say that the 200 was originally developed for pistols, so I expect it will be soft enough.

After I get a good load ,I try to shoot some into wet newspaper to get a rough idea how it compares to other bullets. I know its a not a diffinitive test but I think it gives a realitive feeling for how tough a bullet is and an idea if core seperation is likely to happen.

I agree that case volume and bullet length are issues in the 358. Another reason a lead based bullet would be advantagous to the copper or half copper units. Thus far I have used IMR 4064 and had good luck with cup and core bullets as well as last years barnes 200 TSX