45-70, 300gr bullets, IMR 4198

[Charlie-NY]

I've never used IMR4198. I've been using H322 with excellent speed and accuracy. I have pushed 300 gr bullets at 2300 fps from the 1895 Guide gun but settled on 2200 fps and consistent sub MOA accuracy. I did add a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and it really tamed the beast.

2,300 fps with a 300gr sure is moving! Lately, I've been fooling around with Hornady's 250 MonoFlex bullet. Using the max Barnes load (for their 250 mono) I get 2,330 fps from my 1895SBL. It's fairly flat and very accurate but faster would be nicer. LOL

 

[TexasLife]

Having the sbl and the cb models I hope both can be loaded the same? I'm hoping to obtain 4k of muzzle energy in the cb (26"). All that I've shot in both are Defender Ammunition 350gr flat points.

 

[salmonchaser]

My Brother in Law had some Buffaloe on his ranch in Montana, giant pain in the butt. Finally got them all rounded up and sold, except for one old bull. The more they tried to catch him, the more fence he tore up. BIL caught up to him one afternoon. had his 45/70 loaded with the flex tip bullets. One of them, BIL or the bull, wiggled and the round blew up on the bulls shoulder blade instead of landing behind the shoulder.
Bull went through a couple more fences BIL planted him with his 270.
I'm Not sold on the flex tips.

 

[TexasLife]

My Brother in Law had some Buffaloe on his ranch in Montana, giant pain in the butt. Finally got them all rounded up and sold, except for one old bull. The more they tried to catch him, the more fence he tore up. BIL caught up to him one afternoon. had his 45/70 loaded with the flex tip bullets. One of them, BIL or the bull, wiggled and the round blew up on the bulls shoulder blade instead of landing behind the shoulder.
Bull went through a couple more fences BIL planted him with his 270.
I'm Not sold on the flex tips.

Should'a went for the knees

 

[michsteve]

My Brother in Law had some Buffaloe on his ranch in Montana, giant pain in the butt. Finally got them all rounded up and sold, except for one old bull. The more they tried to catch him, the more fence he tore up. BIL caught up to him one afternoon. had his 45/70 loaded with the flex tip bullets. One of them, BIL or the bull, wiggled and the round blew up on the bulls shoulder blade instead of landing behind the shoulder.
Bull went through a couple more fences BIL planted him with his 270.
I'm Not sold on the flex tips.

I have the Nosler 300 grain ballistic silver tips I wouldn't use them either on Buffalo. For Buffalo it would have to be a 350 grain or heavier or maybe one of the extreme bullets in solid copper.

 

[Alaska]

We all know that there is little rhyme or reason between the data from one source to another. But assuming that you are loading for a modern lever action, how high have you personally pushed this combo safely? And is that the load that you settled on?

I was testing some loads in my Henry this morning. Using the 300gr Speer, I loaded 3 each at 48.0, 49.0, 50.0, 51.0, and 52.0. Among those, I got a pretty good group at 49.0, velocity about 1760. Then the group opened up as I went on up the ladder, but at 52.0 it started to shrink again, velocity up about 1970-ish. Just wondering if I should try to go on up from there and see how it acts. I'm still well within the load levels from Hodgdon, but their data tends to be much hotter than every other source. I'm above the max from Speer, Nosler, and Hornady. Don't have Sierra's data.

Interested to see what you all have done with this combo.

Cheers,
Brian

Marlin Trapper 45/70
350gr Speer FN
IMR 4198 @ 48.0
WW Brass and WLR primer
Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die
My Alaska load great bullet with great weight retention

 

[Joec7651]

Marlin Trapper 45/70
350gr Speer FN
IMR 4198 @ 48.0
WW Brass and WLR primer
Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die
My Alaska load great bullet with great weight retention

I really like this bullet in my 1895. It loads and crimps fine with the factory crimp die. I can safely run this bullet up to 2100 fps with H4198 from a 22” barrel. I’ll probably never need the toughness of this bullet but it’s very accurate in my rifle. I put one end to end through a big doe 5 years ago and I’m not sure it even slowed down. Half inch entry in the front of the chest and a silver dollar sized exit from the opposite ham. She didn’t take a step.

It’s not a bench load(no bueno). Its not bad while shooting sitting or standing though.

 

[JD338]

I have the Nosler 300 grain ballistic silver tips I wouldn't use them either on Buffalo. For Buffalo it would have to be a 350 grain or heavier or maybe one of the extreme bullets in solid copper.

I have e stash of Nosler 300 gr PT. This bullet would get r done. Too bad Nosler doesn't make a special runoff these. It's a great bullet.

JD338

 

[Alaska]

I really like this bullet in my 1895. It loads and crimps fine with the factory crimp die. I can safely run this bullet up to 2100 fps with H4198 from a 22” barrel. I’ll probably never need the toughness of this bullet but it’s very accurate in my rifle. I put one end to end through a big doe 5 years ago and I’m not sure it even slowed down. Half inch entry in the front of the chest and a silver dollar sized exit from the opposite ham. She didn’t take a step.

It’s not a bench load(no bueno). Its not bad while shooting sitting or standing though.

I shoot thru moose with the 350gr Speer fN and yet have recovered one ! It’s like a bonded bullet very accurate and reliable.

 

[RL338]

I have e stash of Nosler 300 gr PT. This bullet would get r done. Too bad Nosler doesn't make a special runoff these. It's a great bullet.

JD338

I wish I had bought more of those back in the day from SPS. I would’ve like to tried them in the 458 WM and my ML. Instead I’m using Hornady’s 325gr. FTXs. The nice thing with them I can go to Fleet Farm and they’re on the shelf.

 

[Alaska]

I wish I had bought more of those back in the day from SPS. I would’ve like to tried them in the 458 WM and my ML. Instead I’m using Hornady’s 325gr. FTXs. The nice thing with them I can go to Fleet Farm and they’re on the shelf.

The Speer 350gr FN and that Hot Cor is highly recommended in 45-70. I too experimented with new 325gr FTX and trimming the brass down and using the special seater plug but after bullet evaluation performance quickly went back to Speer and the 350gr. The only other 3 jacketed bullets that comparable were 350gr Kodiak FN and 350gr Woodleigh RN and Hawk bullets. But the price of the Speer bullets beat all and the accuracy was even a tad better in the Marlin GG / Trapper at top vel.

 

[TexasLife]

Haven't loaded any of these yet and only have shot the Defender brand only. What I hope to load soon is Hornady 325ftx, Barnes 250tsx and 300original also Swift 350a-frame.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Haven't loaded any of these yet and only have shot the Defender brand only. What I hope to load soon is Hornady 325ftx, Barnes 250tsx and 300original also Swift 350a-frame.

I've been able to get several bullets to shoot around the 1" mark at 100yds from my 1895SBL. However, the Swift 350gr A-Frame is the stand-alone winner in accuracy from my rifle.

 

[TexasLife]

I've been able to get several bullets to shoot around the 1" mark at 100yds from my 1895SBL. However, the Swift 350gr A-Frame is the stand-alone winner in accuracy from my rifle.

Hopefully in the sbl I have it can obtain that accuracy you have. Having the cb with the extra 7.5" can hopefully get me an extra 150fps?

For others that have 45-70's in multiple barrel lengths and have shot the same load combo how much velocity change was there?

 

[Joec7651]

TL I’m sure you’ll find the load you’re looking for. An 1895 that won’t shoot is pretty rare in my experience. There are a few out there but they are the exception rather than the rule. As far as barrel length goes pertaining to velocities? You’ll see some difference with barrel length but not nearly as much with straight walled cartridges as you’ll see with bottlenecks. Straight walled cartridges use pretty fast powders which reduces the effect of barrel length somewhat.

 

[TexasLife]

TL I’m sure you’ll find the load you’re looking for. An 1895 that won’t shoot is pretty rare in my experience. There are a few out there but they are the exception rather than the rule. As far as barrel length goes pertaining to velocities? You’ll see some difference with barrel length but not nearly as much with straight walled cartridges as you’ll see with bottlenecks. Straight walled cartridges use pretty fast powders which reduces the effect of barrel length somewhat.

I notice that in QL, but having 50+ grains help

 

[Charlie-NY]

Hopefully in the sbl I have it can obtain that accuracy you have. Having the cb with the extra 7.5" can hopefully get me an extra 150fps?

For others that have 45-70's in multiple barrel lengths and have shot the same load combo how much velocity change was there?

This may help:
Hornady advertises their 325gr FTX load from a 24” sporting length barrels to have velocities that average 1820fps, around 1750fps in 22” sporters and 1650fps in the 18.5" Guide Gun.