.45-70 bullet test

[Guy Miner]

I apologize up front for not having any Nosler bullets to test. Here's the numbers and photos for the 350 grain Swift A-Frame and the 350 grain Hornady:

Hornady, 350 FNSP, 50 gr H4198, RP case, CCI 200 primer = 2086 fps mv
Recovered in 6th water jug, .846" dia, 296 grains retained

Swift A-Frame, 350 gr, same load = 2046 fps
Recovered in 7th water jug, .710" dia, 345 grains retained , picture perfect mushroom. Photos show the Swift on the left and the Hornady on the right.

Rifle was my 22" barreled Marlin 1895, range was 20 yards. Ten, one-gallon milk jugs, filled with water were lined up. Easily repeatable test and I have several other 300, 350 and 400+ grain bullets to test. I was very impressed with the results from each bullet. The Swift is expensive, but apparently worthwhile if going after bigger game. I was a bit surprised that it didn't penetrate a lot farther than the Hornady.

Regards, Guy

 

[JD338]

Guy,

Good data and report. Those big bullets sure are impressive.
Thanks for sharing your test results.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Thanx for sharing Guy. Good job!

 

[nomosendero]

Guy, thanks for sharing!!! Is it feasible or possible to have the same sight
setting at 100 yards with these 2 bullets? I was thinking it would be neat if you could use the Swift up close on the bigger animals & use the Hor. when you hunt Deer up close, or if shooting anything further than 150 yards because I would bet the Hor. would be slow enough at that yardage & beyond to hold up on big animals. It seems to me that the 350 gr. is a good wt. with enough SD for American big game if constructed properly.
I had thought about the Speer/Swift combo in the past, but the Speer can be pretty tough for Deer up close too! The Hor. could be used for all practice too if the Hor/Swift combo would work.

How about it Guy?

 

[old #7]

That swift is one tough bullet. :shock:

 

[bullet]

+1 here also on the A-frame. Thanks Guy, good stuff, sure would like to see the Partition, AccuBond and TSX in a test like that. I think it will be a good thing when the E-Tip is finally made for larger cartridges.

 

[Guy Miner]

nomosendero - I think that a fellow can get by pretty good staying with the same bullet weight and roughly the same powder charge. At 100 yards these things print together. I haven't shot enough of the Swift bullets to check beyond that. Same powder charge gets the Hornady about 40 fps more muzzle velocity. Might have to adjust the powder charge a tad to get 'em the same.

Believe the same thing could be done with the 300 grain Nosler Partition and the much less expensive 300 gr Remington JHP too.

With the price of premium bullets like the Partition and the Swift, I'm all for having one bullet for practice and light game, and a serious bullet for serious game. Sending these Swifts downrange at a buck a pop gets expensive in a hurry!

BTW - this H4198 is a good powder for the .45/70 - I'm four grains under Hodgdon's book max. Believe 2200 fps or so is possible with these 350's.

Bullet - I'm saving milk jugs and will post more tests with more bullets! I want to try that 300 gr Nosler too - I keep hearing good things about it!

Regards, Guy

 

[FOTIS]

2100 fps easy in a 22" barrel

 

[nomosendero]

Thanks Guy. I harvested 2 Whitetail Bucks & one Coyote with the 300NP &
each time it was devasting to say the least. It just seems to me that the
350gr. has the right SD & should carry well at the longer practical 45-70
yardages, I don't know.

 

[Guy Miner]

"2100 fps easy in a 22" barrel"

Yup, at 4 grains under max the 350 Hornady was doing 2086 fps... Only 14 fps shy of 2100... So I'm thinking that at close to Hodgdon's max I oughta be able to get quite a bit more punch out of it.

Of course, recoil from the relatively light lever gun is starting to get right notable. :grin:

 

[Charlie-NY]

In rifles that can safely handle pointed profile bullets; the higher BC .458 (pointy) bullets provided much better down range energy and performance.

Flat nose bullets loose lots of velocity fast. In review of the ballastics of a 300gr FN TSX bullet @ 2,100 ft/sec, I noticed that it looses 500 ft/sec in just the first 100 yds. At 200yds the loss is unbelievable and the energy drop is significant.

However, if you're shooting game @ 25-50yds than its all acedemic.

 

[Guy Miner]

Agree Charlie - the .45/70 is my "timber rifle" while I typically use a .25-06 or a 7mm Rem mag in more open country. Now I've also got a .300 WSM which is looking real good for long-range shooting/hunting. :grin:

I've seen guys use pointy bullets in their traditional lever gun/tube magazine rifles by limiting themselves to one in the chamber and one in the magazine. Haven't really seriously considered that myself yet. Also, Hornady now has some flexy-tip soft point ammo that helps increase the BC of the short, fat bullets.

Overall though - I like the Marlin pretty much as is, for what it is, my big bore lever action timber rifle! Am quite willing to use the blunt nose bullets and limit myself to shorter range shots with this rifle. Heck, I can shoot 150 yards with it much better than I can with my traditional muzzle loader! Never had any real trouble filling my tag with that muzzle loader either. It does surprisingly well and forces me to stalk close.

Regards, Guy

 

[Thebear_78]

The kodiak bonded bullets in 350 and 400gr are also very impressive 45/70 bullets.

 

[nomosendero]

Thanks Guy. I harvested 2 Whitetail Bucks & one Coyote with the 300NP &
each time it was devasting to say the least. It just seems to me that the
350gr. has the right SD & should carry well at the longer practical 45-70
yardages, I don't know.

Charlie, notice I used the term "LONGER PRACTICAL 45-70 YARDAGES". Kinda changes things doesn't it? I was never stating that I wanted to make a long range weapon out of the 45-70. I have a 25-06AI, 270, 300WM and several others for that. Nor do I have an interest in the pointy bullets, which in MOST cases aren't designed to expand at 45-70 vel anyway. And as you know the LeverE bullet is not avail to handloaders yet. No, I use the XLR for hunting in thick country here in AR where Hogs,
DEER & Black Bear may be encountered, almost always up close & rarely a shot up to 250 yards max. may occur. That is not a real big trick & my
300NP load will do that wll, I just believe the 350 is a good allround wt.
To get these same results with the 405 & above gets a little harder &
recoil goes up alot if you want the range & a 300gr. is short for caliber
even though my NP load has shown straight line penetration so far.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

For close up and personal, I'd feel really comfortable with that 45-70 and those 350gr A-frames. Penetrating 7 water jugs translates into a lot of soft tissue.

 

[Guy Miner]

I think you're going to really like the 400+ grain hardcast lead... :grin: My only fear is that I won't have enough water jugs to actually catch one... :shock:

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Old thread I know but...

A few mentioned penetration...I have this to offer if you want more penetration from the Swift bullet. Slow it down a bit....1,800 fps or so and it'll drive deeper. (won't beat your shoulder up so bad either)