45-70 question

[Newysan]

Greetings. I have come to understand the relative strengths of various rifles chambered for this cartridge, trapdoor being the lowest level, the 86 Win being medium strength and the late Ruger and Marlins being at the top but what about the repo's? Looking at the Uberti high walls and also the Pedrosli 86/71 units. I assume these are of the best high quality steels but not to sure about their strength compared to the others. Reason being is I doubt I will ever be able to afford a real High Wall but they do look like fun to shoot. Thanks in advance. Newysan

 

[Oldtrader3]

Most of the Italian copies are made with the same steel that is used by gun makers here in the US. The only difference that I can see, would be the carburzation process, case coloring and drawing operations. These processes in the US factories are usually closely controllled by computerized specialty heat treating chamber ovens.

The small Italian operations may not have the computer process control over carburization and drawing operations. Especially where it involves controlling depth of hardening and brittleness due to hardening from drawing back. Controlling small parts carburizing may be particularly an area of concern for wear and brittleness.

Parts interchangeability due to extensive handwork may also be a concern with the smaller companies. Other than that, they are probably pretty similar in use and operation.

 

[JD338]

Newysan

Just an FYI,
the Marlin 1895 can handle mid range loads only.

JD338

 

[1Shot]

The Italian made High Walls are very good accurate rifles but I would not push them over the mid range loads. You really don't need all that velocity and recoil anyway. The 45-70 with a 405 to 550 gr bullet pushed by a case full of black powder will take any game on the planet. You just need to learn how to judge yardage precisely and know where to set your sights to lob those big slugs to the proper point of impact.

 

[onesonek]

The Italian made High Walls are very good accurate rifles but I would not push them over the mid range loads. You really don't need all that velocity and recoil anyway. The 45-70 with a 405 to 550 gr bullet pushed by a case full of black powder will take any game on the planet. You just need to learn how to judge yardage precisely and know where to set your sights to lob those big slugs to the proper point of impact.

+1

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Newysan

Just an FYI,
the Marlin 1895 can handle mid range loads only.

JD338

Yep...40,000 psi is MAX...its better stay closer to 38,000.

38,000 psi will send a 405 grain cast bullet downrange at 1,900 fps from a 22" barrel....Guide Guns will be around 1,750-1,800 fps...it will also send you a couple of steps back if you're not careful (recoil...lots of it)

Thats way more than enough steam behind a bullet that big...

 

[Oldtrader3]

I always loaded Hornady or Speer 350 gr .45-70's to about 1900 fps. That is plenty of recoil, accuracy and power without straining the chamber pressure.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

405 grain Beartooth bullet, 50 grains of H322 (appx. 38,000 psi)...not bad for peep sights at 100 yards, but its hard to concentrate when you know your bell is fixin to get wrung!...shot from prone with a backpack rest...busted my lip firing this group, LOL...damn thing bout got away from me.

 

[Alaska]

I have both the Marlin and Ruger in 45-70.

Although both strong the Ruger will withstand much higher pressures than the Marlin.

I guess they are 3 Catorgies

1st Low Pressure
H&R 45-70

2nd Mid Pressure
Marlin's ...............I do not know about the Henry.

3rd High Pressure
Ruger and Mauser Custom

I like to use the Mid Pressure in both my rifles
The 350gr Speer FN and 51.8 of RL 7 at 2000 FPS is plenty.

 

[martineta]

Does anybody shoot reduced loads using trailboss and shoot at 1500 or less fps? I load a 30 caliber, (300 Blackout) subsonic using 220 grain bullets. Kills deer like a hammer with almost zero recoil. For sure the old original 45-70's using black powder were not brutal to shoot.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Trailboss...no, haven't tried it.

Unique...yep, good stuff, at about 1,200 fps...accurate, easy to shoot.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I Use IMR 3031 which requires a minimum load density and so for my edification, I keep it above 1500 fps.