7mm rem mag velocity is this to slow a load

[SOTN]

deer season starts tomorrow so i am going to try the 2800 fps load on a couple of mule deer at about 300 yards to see whats up,i can't find a chrono so i go by what happens in the feild,,hopefully they drop like a bag of hammers, I live near where the white tail world record was shot and we have huge deer here and want a gun that can shoot far with knock down power reliably.hopefully 160 at 2800 fps can do this,recoil is minimal and very accurate.i just hope i haven't turned my 7 mag into a 308,,i have an old 308 in the closet ,,my as well sell the mag clean up the old girl 308 and start over,,,,,,,thanks for the replies ,,,any load data would be appreciated as i intend to try and bring up the fps next week using the 160 AccuBond or 140 AccuBond,,i am thinkin of the 140 AccuBond as i have shot many rounds of standard 30-06 150 grn out to 300 yrds reliably and 140grns is not much smaller,so i figure 140 accubonds on deer is the ticket for distance and knock down power on white tails,what do ya think

rande:
I hope you do well with your 7 Mag, at the ALLEGED velocity of 2800 fps.

 

[roysclockgun]

"i agree with the above statement some what,,,although remember the 7mm mag delivers a larger bullet out further than some calibers"

Very true, I did leave out the fact that with the larger propellant capacity the rifleman can more efficiently deliver heavier bullets. Add to that the fact that one can always load down to get lighter recoil from a 7mmRemMag if that is desired and you have a much more versatile cartridge in the 7mmRemMag than with any of the non-mag 7mm family.
As far as needing a 150gr AB for deer: The AB holds together very well. Therefore where you may have been getting what you wanted from a 150gr old design bullet, you can now get the same or better from a 140gr AB! For deer and pronghorn the 140gr AB is the best that I have ever used, in terms of accuracy and quick kill. Two mule deer and two pronghorn at ranges of 155yds to 408 yds. My Chrony test shows the MV at right around 3250fps which provides a very flat trajectory.
Three years ago I tried a 7mmWSM rifle. I had three issues that caused me to sell the rifle. (1) With the short fat cartridge the round does not always feed as smoothly as does the 7mmRemMag. (2) With less propellant capacity I believe that Win. was pushing the envelope, in terms of pressure to try to duplicate 7mmRemMag velocity in a short mag. I returned the first rifle to Browning because the cases swelled, even when using factory ammo. They promptly replaced the Win. M70 rifle. (3) I could get better performance from my old 7mmRemMag rifle.

 

[FOTIS]

Quickload is a predictive tool. Not a panachea. I was not telling or asking anybody what to load. I just reported what I got. And yes it goes without saying you start lower and work up in your particular gun slooooooooooowly.

Case in point.

140 Nosler ballistic tip with 67.5 gr of rl22 will do 3350 fps or so according to Nosler Manual. I have reloaded for over 20 7mm mags and I never ever got remotely close to that. Using Case head expansion measurements I got to 3300 fps with acceptable (less than .0005") with 71 gr of rl22. Each rifle is its own....as are different lots of powder! :wink:

 

[rande]

i ran the load through a chrono today,,,average over 3 shots is 2780 fps ,,load is 62.5 gr h4831 and 160 gr AccuBond,,,,seems slow but is accurate,,,going to get some 140 AccuBond and work out a load,,,,,
2780 fps isn't slow but it's not fast either,,,trajectory isn,t all that flat compared to a 140 or 150 grain



YRDS - 100 = + 1.8 "
200 = 0
300 = - 8 "
400 = - 22.5 "
500 = - 45 "
600 = - 77.5 "
load consists of 160 AccuBond,62.5 gr h4831 wincheaster LR primer and brass

any input welcome,,,,what do you think about this for a load

 

[SOTN]

" Three years ago I tried a 7mmWSM rifle. I had three issues that caused me to sell the rifle. (1) With the short fat cartridge the round does not always feed as smoothly as does the 7mmRemMag. (2) With less propellant capacity I believe that Win. was pushing the envelope, in terms of pressure to try to duplicate 7mmRemMag velocity in a short mag. I returned the first rifle to Browning because the cases swelled, even when using factory ammo. They promptly replaced the Win. M70 rifle. (3) I could get better performance from my old 7mmRemMag rifle.

roysclockgun:
That's good information. All the things you mention, are the reasons I decided against the SFs.

Thanks for verification of what I thought, I already knew.
Smitty of the North

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

If you have a clicky type scope, who cares about velocity, all it takes is a couple more elevation clicks and your in business. Velocity is not everything.

 

[fredj338]

While the 160gr NAB @ 2800fps is fine for deer, I would expect & want more vel. from a 7remmag. Accuracy is the holy grail for rifles but I can get 160gr @ 2800fps from my 7#, 23"bbl. .280 & not bend anything. If I am carrying the extra weight & bbl. length of a magnum, then I want magnum vel. Next season give IMR7828, RL22 or H1000 a try uder the 160grNAB. I am willing to give up a bit of accuracy for a lot more vel. I would think you can get to 3000fps pretty easily & still get under 1moa accuracy. That's all the hunting accuracy most of us can use in the field, JMO.

 

[moreloader]

I am not sure I would ever give up an accuracy from 0.5 to 1 MOA to gain 200 fps in a mag. If it was a difference from 1800 to 2000 yes, but 2800 to 3000, no way. The only place the 200 fps is going to show up is over about 5-600 yards and you just lost your reliable ability to shoot those ranges. Stick to what shoots really well.

This is the whole reason I have gave up on MagPro in my WSM. It will give me 100 fps on all loads but it won't give me the accuracy I get with 760. I might add that difference is from 0.291 to 0.708 on 5 shot groups.

 

[fredj338]

I am not sure I would ever give up an accuracy from 0.5 to 1 MOA to gain 200 fps in a mag. If it was a difference from 1800 to 2000 yes, but 2800 to 3000, no way. The only place the 200 fps is going to show up is over about 5-600 yards and you just lost your reliable ability to shoot those ranges. Stick to what shoots really well.

This is the whole reason I have gave up on MagPro in my WSM. It will give me 100 fps on all loads but it won't give me the accuracy I get with 760. I might add that difference is from 0.291 to 0.708 on 5 shot groups.

My point being that unless you are sniping deer at ultra lng range, the diff. between 0.3" groups & .75" groups is almost nonexistent under field shooting conditions. I can get match accuracy from a match bullet but am willing to give up a bit of that for better terminal perf. by using a NP for example. If my 7RM only made 2800fps w/ it's best load, I would probably sell it & buy a .280 if I wanted that kind of perf. The extra vel. does come into play for wind drift at dist. over 300yds though. To each his own, JMO. :grin:

 

[SOTN]

"If my 7RM only made 2800fps w/ it's best load, I would probably sell it & buy a .280 if I wanted that kind of perf. The extra vel. does come into play for wind drift at dist. over 300yds though. To each his own, JMO."

fredj338:
I understand what you're saying, and it's a good point, but there should be less pressure in the 7mm Mag.

I have a 280 as well as 7 Mags. and I'm not low rating it, but you can get 280 ballistics in a 7 Mag. without half trying.

Smitty of the North

 

[fredj338]

Very true SOTN, but why carry the extra weight & barrel length to get .280 vel. @ less pressure? Then just get a 7mm STW & donwload that as well? Sorry, I just don't see the point. I have a .280 & rechambered my 7RM to 7mm Dakota. Now I have a real diff. in vel. between the two. :grin: Hard not to like a 160grNP @ 3250fps for a 400yd big game round.

 

[SOTN]

Very true SOTN, but why carry the extra weight & barrel length to get .280 vel. @ less pressure? Then just get a 7mm STW & donwload that as well? Sorry, I just don't see the point. I have a .280 & rechambered my 7RM to 7mm Dakota. Now I have a real diff. in vel. between the two. :grin: Hard not to like a 160grNP @ 3250fps for a 400yd big game round.

Fredj338:
I just don't like to load up to the absolute max, and I never got the velocity out of my 280 that I thought I should, however it has been no problem with my 7 Mags. Recently, I got a new 26 inch barrel installed on my 280. That should help.
Smitty of the North

 

[fredj338]

I found my .280 finicky about vel. v pressureusing H4831sc or RL22. It all went away w/ IMR7828. Give it a try. I am getting 2800fps+ w/ a 160grNP & 3000fps w/ 140grNP, all from a very lt.wt. 23" bbl.
For deer & antelope, I am not giving up much to the 7RM. For elk, the 7RM still edges my .280 out w/ 160gr-175gr bullets. :wink:

 

[SOTN]

fredj338:
Thank You for the suggestion.
Smitty of the North

 

[Jeff Olsen]

The Speer book shows 61 grs as max! The Hogdon site 64 grs.

Don't use that data above from POP. Each rifle is an individual.

Work up loads in your gun going by published data only.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/7mmremma.php

Yeah, you want to be careful with stuff you hear on the internet. When I first got my .325 WSM, there was very little load data for it. I ran across a load on the internet, thought to myself great! I'll just start a few grains under that and away I go... well, three grains under gave me a pancaked primer, extruded like a nipple around the firing pin hole, and a case that I just about couldn't get back out of my BLR!

At least I knew where "it" was with that load <g>! Heh heh... I started at absolute max and then worked down from there- that's how you are supposed to do it, right? :roll:

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

deer season starts tomorrow so i am going to try the 2800 fps load on a couple of mule deer at about 300 yards to see whats up,i can't find a chrono so i go by what happens in the feild,,hopefully they drop like a bag of hammers, I live near where the white tail world record was shot and we have huge deer here and want a gun that can shoot far with knock down power reliably.hopefully 160 at 2800 fps can do this,recoil is minimal and very accurate.i just hope i haven't turned my 7 mag into a 308,,i have an old 308 in the closet ,,my as well sell the mag clean up the old girl 308 and start over,,,,,,,thanks for the replies ,,,any load data would be appreciated as i intend to try and bring up the fps next week using the 160 AccuBond or 140 AccuBond,,i am thinkin of the 140 AccuBond as i have shot many rounds of standard 30-06 150 grn out to 300 yrds reliably and 140grns is not much smaller,so i figure 140 accubonds on deer is the ticket for distance and knock down power on white tails,what do ya think

If you look at the charts in the back of the Nosler reloading book #5 you can see for youself if the 140 is better at longer ranges. You'll get higher velocities with the 140, but, contrary to intuition it won't actually shoot THAT much flatter than even your mild 160-gn load, and the 160 will be carrying a lot more punch when it gets there.

It's why, even though I have a 150-gn AccuBond load that chrono's at 3100 fps from my 30-06, my long-range load is probably going to be a 165-gn AccuBond at 2950, instead (assuming I can get similar accuracy). The heavier bullet will penetrate better, buck wind better, and there's a whopping 2-inch difference in how flat it will shoot at 400 yards (my limit). Don't forget, bullet drop is predictable but wind deflection is not.

It's easy to get hung up on numbers, and I guess I'd be a little disturbed at a 2800 fps load from a 7-mag too, but in reality it is NO different than if you were getting 2900 fps, in which case you'd be happy. That 100 fps is pretty irrelevant in all ways.

-jeff

-jeff

 

[roysclockgun]

"It's easy to get hung up on numbers......."

I agree, however, there are very sound reasons to go for higher MV. Your example of only getting from 2800fps to 2900 fps made your point, but how about a 300fps or 400fps gain? Wouldn't that substanially flatten the trajectory and in many cases make "dialing in the scope" un-neccessary?
With 7mmRemMag and 160AB, 2800fps of course, may do the job, but you are not getting all that you can get from that combo....by a long shot!
If MV is so un-important, why not simply end cartrdge developement with the 30-30 which when it was introduced, was believed to be a marvelous cartridge. Or, end cartridge advances with the 30-06, which when introduced for military use, was believed to be "to powerful" for a game cartridge.
No, I believe that the conscientious hunter, who also handloads his own hunting cartridges, is going to opt for the most accurate and fastest round that he can develope for his rifle. Working up a cartridge is not only a great hobby that extends the enjoyment of hunting, it also makes sense when the moment of truth arrives and you get that shot that pushes your own personal "limit" to the limit!!

 

[Jeff Olsen]

"It's easy to get hung up on numbers......."

I agree, however, there are very sound reasons to go for higher MV. Your example of only getting from 2800fps to 2900 fps made your point, but how about a 300fps or 400fps gain? Wouldn't that substanially flatten the trajectory and in many cases make "dialing in the scope" un-neccessary?
With 7mmRemMag and 160AB, 2800fps of course, may do the job, but you are not getting all that you can get from that combo....by a long shot!

I don't own a 7-mag; I just looked it up and he is indeed getting pretty anemic results from his magnum. In theory, he should see over 3000 fps at book max loads. And that's what I'd want too, truth be told.

I'd be unhappy with 2800 fps from a 7-mag. OTOH, it'll work just fine for what he desribed. He's essentially got a .280 on his hands there and certainly THAT'S a fine deer cartridge. I killed a lot of deer with a 7mm-08 with 150's at 2700 fps or so and it whacked the heck out of them...

-jeff

 

[fredj338]

roy, velocity isn't "unimportant" but it's also not everything. You can drive light wt. bullets very fast but check the vel. at 400yds & you'll see the heavy bullet has nearly caught up & bucks the wind better too. Many guys get hung up on velocity, even extreme accuracy, & then you find out they shoot 150yds max. from a treestand. :shock: Velocity isn't the holy grail but you buy the heavier magnum for the velocity or to drive bigger bullets faster.

 

[SOTN]

roy, velocity isn't "unimportant" but it's also not everything. You can drive light wt. bullets very fast but check the vel. at 400yds & you'll see the heavy bullet has nearly caught up & bucks the wind better too. Many guys get hung up on velocity, even extreme accuracy, & then you find out they shoot 150yds max. from a treestand. :shock: Velocity isn't the holy grail but you buy the heavier magnum for the velocity or to drive bigger bullets faster.

Absolutely.... Magnums are at their best with, heavy for caliber, bullets.
Smitty of the North