Accuracy issue

[john71913]

I have a rifle that I've only fired 40 times. It is a Kimber SuperAmerica. First, I tested a box of Remington 130 gr. Core Lokts. I started sighting in the scope at 50 yards. This is a good Leupold VX 3 scope that I have used on another rifle. Then, at 100 yards the groups opened up to about 7 or 8 inches. Yesterday, I loaded some 130 gr. Hornady InterLocks. I seated those to the cannelure, so I haven't played with the seating depth. Nevertheless, I don't think that the seating depth will make such a dramatic difference. I did remove the stock and it looks like very little bedding material has been used by the factory, almost like someone used their bubble gum to bed the thing. I thought about trying some Nosler Ballistic Tips, as I have had excellent results with them, but I still doubt that the bullet is the problem. By the way, I'm not an excellent shot, but I typically get groups around an inch with my Remington 700, 30-06. I also get around an inch, or less, with my Kimber Montana in 308. Getting good groups with the Montana makes me even more curious concerning the problem. I am using Remington brass, Winchester magnum rifle primers. IMR 4350 was the powder that I used to reloaded the cartridges. I just don't know. I'll get some more brass pretty soon and keep working on it. If you have any ideas, please let me know.

P.S. I shot a very tight 5-shot group at 50 yards and three of the bullets went through the same hole. I was really excited until I moved out to 100 yards. My excitement went downhill at that point.

 

[JD338]

John,

It could be one or more of several things.
Bases and rings tight? Proper torque spec?
Action screws tightened to proper torque spec?
Have you cleaned the bore?
Are you using a good quality solvent and copper solvent?
It could be that your rifle doesn't like 130's. Maybe try a different bullet weight.
I am assuming 270 Win. If so, maybe try H4831 and RL22.

Keep us posted.

JD338

 

[john71913]

John,

It could be one or more of several things.
Bases and rings tight? Proper torque spec?
Action screws tightened to proper torque spec?
Have you cleaned the bore?
Are you using a good quality solvent and copper solvent?
It could be that your rifle doesn't like 130's. Maybe try a different bullet weight.
I am assuming 270 Win. If so, maybe try H4831 and RL22.

Keep us posted.

JD338

Thanks, JD338

Opps! I didn't mention that it's a 270 WSM. I checked the bases and rings for tightness, but I didn't check for torque specs. The barrel is spotless. I have only tried the 130's. Think I'll try 150's next. I guess I need to get a torque wrench and check the action screws, etc. I've never checked for torque specs before, but this might be a good time to start. I use Remington 40-X bore cleaner. It seems to work pretty good. Initially, I assumed that Kimber would have properly adjusted the torque on the action screws, but when I removed the stock after the first 20 shots I guesstimated the torque.

 

[SJB358]

I know that Kimbers have some odd'ities such as a binding mag box, which shouldn't be the problem with yours since its on the floor plate. I've also heard of a action screw bottoming out in the action. That can be shortened. The last is re bedding the recoil lug to make sure it's nice and snug and you've got a good float on the barrel.

I ran 22, 25 and 7828 in my 270 WSM with excellent results. Really accurate cartridge. Maybe give those small things I mentioned a look after and make sure it isn't something simple.

They are great rifles, and hard to replicate unless your going full custom, but those little tweaks seem to work for a lot of folks.

I'd bet if it shoots 130's Itll shoot anything well. Never found my 270 WSM picky with much of anything.

 

[DrMike]

I have a rifle that I've only fired 40 times. It is a Kimber SuperAmerica. First, I tested a box of Remington 130 gr. Core Lokts. I started sighting in the scope at 50 yards. This is a good Leupold VX 3 scope that I have used on another rifle. Then, at 100 yards the groups opened up to about 7 or 8 inches. Yesterday, I loaded some 130 gr. Hornady InterLocks. I seated those to the cannelure, so I haven't played with the seating depth. Nevertheless, I don't think that the seating depth will make such a dramatic difference. I did remove the stock and it looks like very little bedding material has been used by the factory, almost like someone used their bubble gum to bed the thing. I thought about trying some Nosler Ballistic Tips, as I have had excellent results with them, but I still doubt that the bullet is the problem. By the way, I'm not an excellent shot, but I typically get groups around an inch with my Remington 700, 30-06. I also get around an inch, or less, with my Kimber Montana in 308. Getting good groups with the Montana makes me even more curious concerning the problem. I am using Remington brass, Winchester magnum rifle primers. IMR 4350 was the powder that I used to reloaded the cartridges. I just don't know. I'll get some more brass pretty soon and keep working on it. If you have any ideas, please let me know.

P.S. I shot a very tight 5-shot group at 50 yards and three of the bullets went through the same hole. I was really excited until I moved out to 100 yards. My excitement went downhill at that point.

Likely not the bullet and sounds as if you're shooting well enough that you can eliminate the cowboy in this case. JD338 was spot on in suggesting checking the items most often overlooked and easiest to correct. If they are good, then it is time to begin on other things. Two observations from what you write. First, many of the new rifles have hot glue as the bedding compound. Some shoot amazingly well despite the lack of stiffness. Winchester has always been bad about using hot glue as bedding compound; and yet, most of them delivered acceptable accuracy. The same holds true for Kimber, generally. Having stated that, a good bedding job won't hurt a thing. The other observation is that since you are observing fine accuracy at 50 yards, it would be unusual not to see better accuracy than you're reporting at 100 yards. You may need to look at another bullet. A few years back, Kimber had a real problem with QC. The issue turned out to be poor crowns. A quick dressing with an eleven degree crown is a quick way to eliminate this possibility cropping up again.

How far off the lands are you seating your bullets? The seating depth can make a dramatic difference in hand loads. I've seen dramatic differentials in as little as 0.005 inches. IMR 4350 is a fine powder for the 270 WSM. The cartridge will readily digest quite a number of powders in that mid-burn range. Run a few 150 grain bullets through the rifle to see how they perform for you before you do anything else.

 

[john71913]

I know that Kimbers have some odd'ities such as a binding mag box, which shouldn't be the problem with yours since its on the floor plate. I've also heard of a action screw bottoming out in the action. That can be shortened. The last is re bedding the recoil lug to make sure it's nice and snug and you've got a good float on the barrel.

I ran 22, 25 and 7828 in my 270 WSM with excellent results. Really accurate cartridge. Maybe give those small things I mentioned a look after and make sure it isn't something simple.

They are great rifles, and hard to replicate unless your going full custom, but those little tweaks seem to work for a lot of folks.

I'd bet if it shoots 130's Itll shoot anything well. Never found my 270 WSM picky with much of anything.

Thanks, SJB358!

It'll probably be a simple fix. If I can get it shooting like the Montana I'll be a happy camper. I like the Kimbers.

 

[john71913]

I have a rifle that I've only fired 40 times. It is a Kimber SuperAmerica. First, I tested a box of Remington 130 gr. Core Lokts. I started sighting in the scope at 50 yards. This is a good Leupold VX 3 scope that I have used on another rifle. Then, at 100 yards the groups opened up to about 7 or 8 inches. Yesterday, I loaded some 130 gr. Hornady InterLocks. I seated those to the cannelure, so I haven't played with the seating depth. Nevertheless, I don't think that the seating depth will make such a dramatic difference. I did remove the stock and it looks like very little bedding material has been used by the factory, almost like someone used their bubble gum to bed the thing. I thought about trying some Nosler Ballistic Tips, as I have had excellent results with them, but I still doubt that the bullet is the problem. By the way, I'm not an excellent shot, but I typically get groups around an inch with my Remington 700, 30-06. I also get around an inch, or less, with my Kimber Montana in 308. Getting good groups with the Montana makes me even more curious concerning the problem. I am using Remington brass, Winchester magnum rifle primers. IMR 4350 was the powder that I used to reloaded the cartridges. I just don't know. I'll get some more brass pretty soon and keep working on it. If you have any ideas, please let me know.

P.S. I shot a very tight 5-shot group at 50 yards and three of the bullets went through the same hole. I was really excited until I moved out to 100 yards. My excitement went downhill at that point.

Likely not the bullet and sounds as if you're shooting well enough that you can eliminate the cowboy in this case. JD338 was spot on in suggesting checking the items most often overlooked and easiest to correct. If they are good, then it is time to begin on other things. Two observations from what you write. First, many of the new rifles have hot glue as the bedding compound. Some shoot amazingly well despite the lack of stiffness. Winchester has always been bad about using hot glue as bedding compound; and yet, most of them delivered acceptable accuracy. The same holds true for Kimber, generally. Having stated that, a good bedding job won't hurt a thing. The other observation is that since you are observing fine accuracy at 50 yards, it would be unusual not to see better accuracy than you're reporting at 100 yards. You may need to look at another bullet. A few years back, Kimber had a real problem with QC. The issue turned out to be poor crowns. A quick dressing with an eleven degree crown is a quick way to eliminate this possibility cropping up again.

How far off the lands are you seating your bullets? The seating depth can make a dramatic difference in hand loads. I've seen dramatic differentials in as little as 0.005 inches. IMR 4350 is a fine powder for the 270 WSM. The cartridge will readily digest quite a number of powders in that mid-burn range. Run a few 150 grain bullets through the rifle to see how they perform for you before you do anything else.

Sounds like good advice. I'll try some 150's in a couple of weeks. I'll also try some different seating depths. I currently have 20 pieces of brass, looks like I'll have to pick up some more. I'm sure it could use a better bedding job. Don't know if I want to attempt the bedding job myself and risk damaging the stock. The stock is absolutely beautiful, even for a SuperAmerica. That's the only reason that I bought the rifle.

 

[DrMike]

Hey, I understand. I've bought more than a few rifles because they were "purty." Fact is, aesthetics is mighty important in my rifle selection. They don't shoot any better than an ugly rifle, but I feel better, even when I miss. As the old saying goes, "Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun."

 

[truck driver]

John, bedding the recoil lug is easy, just dig out the old bedding material get a can of kiwi neutral shoe polish and some masking tape along with some Devcon 5 minute epoxy and we can walk you threw the steps.

 

[john71913]

John, bedding the recoil lug is easy, just dig out the old bedding material get a can of kiwi neutral shoe polish and some masking tape along with some Devcon 5 minute epoxy and we can walk you threw the steps.

Thank you, Truck Driver!
I'm going to scrape some money together and give it a whirl. I'll get some new brass too. I'll probably wait for my tax refund. :grin: That WSM brass is off the chain expensive. When I bought the rifle I worked as an ultrasonic inspector in the oilfield pipe industry. Oil biz isn't doing too good nowadays. I've gone from $80,000 per year to about $19,000. lol

 

[DrMike]

Ouch! There's a lot of that going around up here. Gas exploration crashed. Still some mining and a major hydroelectric project for the construction trades. By annealing, you should get long life out of your brass. I get up to ten firings without any difficulty. With annealing, you can extend that considerably.

 

[Vince]

Before you begin treating in to the rifle, aside from checking the torque, bases, rings and such I'd likely try some lighter and heavier bullets first. Also try some flat base bullets as well as boattails.

I had a Winchester 25-06 that was giving me fits with the 110 grain boattails. When I went to the 87 grain fbsp things magically changed. Further evaluation revealed that it shoots the 100 grain fbsp well too.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Vince

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[john71913]

Ouch! There's a lot of that going around up here. Gas exploration crashed. Still some mining and a major hydroelectric project for the construction trades. By annealing, you should get long life out of your brass. I get up to ten firings without any difficulty. With annealing, you can extend that considerably.

Yep. I'm going to do everything possible to extend the life of the brass. The cost doesn't sound terribly bad, until one finds that there are usually only 25 pieces per box.

 

[john71913]

Before you begin treating in to the rifle, aside from checking the torque, bases, rings and such I'd likely try some lighter and heavier bullets first. Also try some flat base bullets as well as boattails.

I had a Winchester 25-06 that was giving me fits with the 110 grain boattails. When I went to the 87 grain fbsp things magically changed. Further evaluation revealed that it shoots the 100 grain fbsp well too.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Vince

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

You bet, Vince. I'll give it all a try. I'm sure this rifle must be a pretty good shooter. It'll just take some trial and error. Hopefully, not too much error.

 

[Greg Nolan]

John,
What is the distance from your loaded ammo to the rifling? If it's a lot (over .03) you can lengthen the cartridge Over All Length as much as the magazine will allow. If that fails to help try Barnes TTSX or Speer Hot core. Barnes will probably give you the best accuracy. I've had 4 Kimbers in different configurations and they were all sensitive to OAL. A short fat bullet or TTSX will overcome this normally. Good luck.

 

[BretN]

John, try getting brass at a local range. Our club sells to members very reasonably. I would second trying to bed just the lug. I'm going to do that with a couple of mine. Good luck with your Kimber. The Super America is a beautiful gun.

 

[john71913]

John,
What is the distance from your loaded ammo to the rifling? If it's a lot (over .03) you can lengthen the cartridge Over All Length as much as the magazine will allow. If that fails to help try Barnes TTSX or Speer Hot core. Barnes will probably give you the best accuracy. I've had 4 Kimbers in different configurations and they were all sensitive to OAL. A short fat bullet or TTSX will overcome this normally. Good luck.

Greg, I haven't shot this rifle but 40 times. As a result, I haven't even checked the seating depth yet. Before next hunting season I want to use only lead free bullets, so Barnes and Nosler E-Tip are on the bullet list. Remington Core-Lokts didn't shoot worth a flip, so I tried some Hornady Interlocks and seated to the cannelure. They didn't shoot worth a flip either. I have a Kimber Montana in 308 Winchester that shoots anything I feed it. If the Montana won't group within an inch then I know it's my fault. This SuperAmerica seems to be a different critter. I'll try some Barnes bullets in a couple of weeks. They might do better. What is accuracy like with the E-Tips? I've been wanting to try them for a long time. Next time I'll focus on the seating depth. I've just never seen it make a difference of several inches at 100 yards.

 

[john71913]

John, try getting brass at a local range. Our club sells to members very reasonably. I would second trying to bed just the lug. I'm going to do that with a couple of mine. Good luck with your Kimber. The Super America is a beautiful gun.

Bret, I remember when I could get all the 30-06 brass that I wanted at the range. Those days are gone around here. People get the brass and sell it to the pawn shops

 

[BretN]

Here the ranges I go to have pretty clear policy during public deer rifle sight in days that any brass hitting the floor become property of the range. The range then sells to members or as scrap. Our club's brass rate is very reasonable. I got 100 cleaned and de-primed 7mm RM cases for $5.50. The other range I go to is more expensive, but still cheaper than most places.

My most recent new gun took a while to break in, but at about the 50 shot mark it was like a switch was turned on and it started shooting great. But I guess with my gun it was going from 1.5" groups to easily under an inch after it was broken in. If yours won't group much at all, I'd contact Kimber. Good luck.

 

[SJB358]

John,
What is the distance from your loaded ammo to the rifling? If it's a lot (over .03) you can lengthen the cartridge Over All Length as much as the magazine will allow. If that fails to help try Barnes TTSX or Speer Hot core. Barnes will probably give you the best accuracy. I've had 4 Kimbers in different configurations and they were all sensitive to OAL. A short fat bullet or TTSX will overcome this normally. Good luck.

Greg, I haven't shot this rifle but 40 times. As a result, I haven't even checked the seating depth yet. Before next hunting season I want to use only lead free bullets, so Barnes and Nosler E-Tip are on the bullet list. Remington Core-Lokts didn't shoot worth a flip, so I tried some Hornady Interlocks and seated to the cannelure. They didn't shoot worth a flip either. I have a Kimber Montana in 308 Winchester that shoots anything I feed it. If the Montana won't group within an inch then I know it's my fault. This SuperAmerica seems to be a different critter. I'll try some Barnes bullets in a couple of weeks. They might do better. What is accuracy like with the E-Tips? I've been wanting to try them for a long time. Next time I'll focus on the seating depth. I've just never seen it make a difference of several inches at 100 yards.

The 130 ET is pretty famous with the good doctor here. I believe he has taken quite a few animals with his from his 270 WSM.