Ackley Improved

[Vince]

Help me out please.

While I understand the concept of changing the shoulder angle to gather more velocity by having more case capacity for powder I'm just not seeing the gains I think one should expect from switching from a standard cartridge.

In this day and age, given the advent of slow burning rifle powders, I'm inclined to favor a magnum of some sort over an AI. I just don't see it. Please convince me.

Vince

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[Thebear_78]

In some cartridges it's effective, in others not so much. Prime candidates have a lot of body taper, by reducing the shoulder angle and blowing out the body taper you gain more capacity yeilding greater improvement. Good examples are 22-250, 257 Roberts, 280 rem, and 300 h&h. All have quite a bit of body taper and long sloping shoulders.


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[JD338]

In addition to increased case capacity and performance, you have the option of using the parent cartridge, is: 280 Rem instead of 280 AI.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

TB and Jim nailed it as far as I'm concerned. You also have less bolt thrust with a nearly straight sided cartridge so you usually incur less case stretch so less trimming is required.

I would just be cautious when comparing numbers as some folks look at standard book data for a standard cartridge then pull Internet or passed around data for an Ackley and see huge gains. The bottom line is pressure is still pressure. Ackleys tend to be very good at not showing pressures signs as easily as a standard cartridge with a little taper as they grab the chamber walls without much rearward movement. Usually when you get psi signs with an Ackley your pretty high in the pressure range.

 

[NWBlacktail]

In this day and age, given the advent of slow burning rifle powders, I'm inclined to favor a magnum of some sort over an AI. I just don't see it. Please convince me.

Vince

So are you asking why would a 280AI be any better then a 7mm WSM? It wouldn't be. Aside from a bunch of nit-picky gains you get, it's not like folks are dominating competition circuits with AI's. Or animals drop dead in their tracks or crawl to the nearest access road for easy pick-up if they were shot from an AI.

I think they are cool. Other folks think the WSM families are cool. Some think the belted cases are cool. We're just kids in a candy store… :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

In this day and age, given the advent of slow burning rifle powders, I'm inclined to favor a magnum of some sort over an AI. I just don't see it. Please convince me.

Vince

So are you asking why would a 280AI be any better then a 7mm WSM? It wouldn't be. Aside from a bunch of nit-picky gains you get, it's not like folks are dominating competition circuits with AI's. Or animals drop dead in their tracks or crawl to the nearest access road for easy pick-up if they were shot from an AI.

I think they are cool. Other folks think the WSM families are cool. Some think the belted cases are cool. We're just kids in a candy store… :mrgreen:

Amen brother!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Some AI's strike a good balance....

A perfect blend of case capacity, bore size, magazine capacity, and recoil.

Magazine capacity is/was a big selling point for me...a M70 will hold 5 rounds, others hold 4.

Using a magnum....you lose a round...3 rounds just isn't enough to give me that warm and fuzzy feeling....I miss sometimes.

It baffles me that it took so long for Ackley's ideas to be main stream...straighter walls and sharper shoulders are the norm for modern high performance rounds...maybe only slight improvement, but any gain is a good gain.

 

[preacher]

With todays modern powders, improving cases are not needed for velocity gain. In fact, with some powders, my long throated .280 will crowd some 7mm Rem Mag factory loads or some book data! It runs right with a 22" bbl .280 Ackley I had done back in the early '90s ( you need at least a 24" bbl for that round to shine.) More powder in the case is what its about with Improving cases "for me". I do like the fact that I can get the velocities of the hot loaded standard but in the Improved do it at a lower pressure. Is it cost effective? Naw!! Its just a lot of fun and the cases look great! ha. I'm down to one Ackley now, my Whelen. I'm having my 22-250 AI rebarreled to the 6.5 Creedmoor...as I get older, I don't have the time to mess with a lot of fire forming/load workup/range work as I used to. Its nice to buy cases ready to go. Now...a 280 Nosler Ackley case necked down to 6.5 "could" be in my future!! lol

 

[DrMike]

I think they are cool. Other folks think the WSM families are cool. Some think the belted cases are cool. We're just kids in a candy store… :mrgreen:

And some just like 'em all! :lol:

 

[big rifle man]

Guys, maybe I'm wrong on this but take a 7-08, load it with RL17 and I think you push that round (bullet) right into the mix of improved calibers. Ballistics have been very impressive with that combination.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Guys, maybe I'm wrong on this but take a 7-08, load it with RL17 and I think you push that round (bullet) right into the mix of improved calibers. Ballistics have been very impressive with that combination.

Might get close with 140 grain bullets...maybe, with a long enough barrel...as bullet weight goes up, the bigger case runs away with it.

Still though....the 7-08 covers a lot of ground....but as is always the case, there is no replacement for displacement.

With a 280 Ackley....you have it all, sorta....you can load it down to near 7-30 Waters, or up to near 7 Magnum...not much that won't cover.

But then the 7-08 will do most of that...only falling short at the upper end...the 7-08 can and will match standard factory 280 Remington loads.

 

[preacher]

You made my case big guy, modern powders have come a long way. Besides, most all of us hunt/shoot game well under 300yds ( probably well under 200) and higher velocities, while nice, are pretty indiscernible to the human eye and on game.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

In some cartridges it's effective, in others not so much. Prime candidates have a lot of body taper, by reducing the shoulder angle and blowing out the body taper you gain more capacity yeilding greater improvement. Good examples are 22-250, 257 Roberts, 280 rem, and 300 h&h. All have quite a bit of body taper and long sloping shoulders.


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AI a 30-30, and you have a whole nother beast!

I'm getting 3450fps with a 110gr AccuBond and IMR4350 in my 257 Roberts AI. I'm happy that i went that route. Its just fun to have something a little different, something others havent seen.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Yep.....just having something different...I've always liked to be different....for that reason, I was shooting a 25-06 long before it was popular like it is now...ammo was hard to find and expensive ($25+ per box in the late 80's)...not much has changed, anything "different" is still expensive.

 

[Dwh7271]

Yep.....just having something different...I've always liked to be different.

That right there says it all.
Well said.
That's the reason for all the cartridges and ideas companies and individuals come up with.
Usually begins with...What if I could........?

I like the AI cartridges. My 250 AI is just flat cool. Accurate as can be also. Truth be told, I could have shot the same bullet at the same speed from a 257 Roberts, 25-06 etc. Not that one is right or wrong, just different. I ilke the way it looks and the way it shoots. Nuff said.

 

[sask boy]

There are 3 guys that I regularly hunt with that shoot 7mm mags so when everyone found out that I was going to go with a 284 they assumed that I was going to get a mag or the wsm but when I told them I was going with the 280AI because it was different they just laughed as they did all the years I shot the lowly 270win.
In this area the 280 has never been used much, all the years I hunted before joining this forum only knew one person that shot the 280. Once I got enlightened by the good Doctor I started to research the calibre and I have discovered that there are not many bad things you can say about it !
My nephew has been playing a bit with my 280AI and he really likes it a lot. This spring I am really going to complete the final touches of the 150gr. ABLR load and then it will be my go to rifle along with my 35 Whelen.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[bobnob]

I'd really love to have a crack at a 6.5 Swede Improved.

Anyone done that one before?

 

[efw]

.280 AI & 7mm WSM have roughly equal powder capacity, so they'll perform similarly at similar pressures.

This is why they cannot be the equal of the 7 RM.

That having been said I love the uniqueness of my 257 AI (though I'd be afraid if I were getting 3400-ish w/ 110s; it should not perform like a 257 Weatherby!) and my 280 AI and will likely have. 25-06 AI & 223 AI before long.

To me, aside from the "cool factor," AIs are efficient, and can improve the power capacity of their respective actions; a 243 AI in short, 257 AI in intermediate, 280 AI in standard, and 375 AI in magnum.

 

[Guy Miner]

Which AI cartridges show the best/biggest improvement in ballistics over their standard counterparts?

I've read that the .257 AI is a very good one, along with the .280 AI.

Have heard that some of the others are not all that impressive.

Enlighten me AI users... That I may learn!

Thanks, Guy

 

[SJB358]

.280 AI & 7mm WSM have roughly equal powder capacity, so they'll perform similarly at similar pressures.

This is why they cannot be the equal of the 7 RM.

Not true about the WSM, it is actually the same capacity or sometimes a grain more of H20. The WSM does run at a higher SAAMI PSI than the Rem Mag but the two are virtually identical in case capacity. Once I got the WSM, the Rem Mag sat in the safe cause the WSM handled all bullets equal or sometimes better since the Model 70's magazine allowed seatimg the longer bullets out where they should be and were throated accordingly. The Rem Mag is a touch confined with the slower powders in the 3.4" box.

Sorry, I dig the little 7mm WSM. It's an excellent performer. 160's at nearly 3100 was never a big trick with it. Plus it seemed to shoot everything pretty well.

I guess we could rename it the 280 Ackley Improved +P. Might get more press :lol: