Another Range-Rat Know-It-All

[roysclockgun]

I try not to talk too much while at the range, as I am down to about 40% of normal hearing now! Regardless, someone usually wants to talk at me and usually they have something to tell me about my own rifle! Yesterday, I was relaxing and flailing away with my US M1 Rifle. A man asked me if I was using military ball ammo. I told him that I was using ammo that had come in from Greece and that, yes, it was military FMJ. I said that the last batch that I bought may be my last military ball ammo, as it has all but dried up! He scoffed and asked me if I knew how much 30-06 had been produced by various countries, but before I could venture a guess, he said that millions of rounds were in US and foreign warehouses and that it would never run out. Of course, we know that "never" is a long time. In the past few years, I have seen military 30-06 come in from:Greece, Korea and various South American countries. As this ammo ran short, the price of military FMJ 30-06 cartridges rapidly went up!
I never did get to respond to the man at the range, as he was in love with his own voice and was one of those who assume that the man to whom he is speaking, just fell off the turnip truck and knows nothing. The last thing that I heard him say was that the US M1 Rifle went into use in 1942! He never even acknowledged my response, when I told him that he was mistaken and that the US M1 Rifle was adopted in 1936 and that while production at first was only a trickle, by time 1942 rolled around, many thousands were already in service with US forces!
Probably better for me to just point to my hearing aids and tell people who walk up to me at the range that I am deaf. Less aggravation that way!
What was the last firearms BS that you were fed?
Steven A.

 

[FOTIS]

I was advised that if I buy barnes bullets I need to push them as slow as possible in order for them to stay in the animal longer and thus get a chance to open up.
He said if I pushed a Banes X too fast it does not get a chance to expand.

 

[Divernhunter]

The last mis-information I have heard is in your post. The ammo from CMP has not dried up for good. As a matter of fact they have purchased a huge amount of it again and are preparing to start selling it again. They say they have much more than last time and should be good for quite a few years. The exact packaging/pricing has not been determined yet as they were waiting for it to start arriving. I have not checked or heard from them in awhile so I am not sure where they are now in the process.

They also got a large number of M1 Garands in from Greece also which should be up for sale soon if not already.

This may help you and others with the ammo for M1's and other rifles.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Guy saw my LRH sticker on the back of my truck at the local gas station as I was on my way to do some 1K shooting out at Jmads. He asked me how far LR was and I said I dunno, depends on the situation and the meaning of LR is different to different people. I said usually 1K is considered LR for me and my equipment. He asked what I shot and I said various rifles, but mostly 7 RM and 338 EDGE right now.

He proceeded to go on how you dont need a magnum to shoot that far, that magnums are for well, wussies...

He went on to tell me, get this, shooting at a bush at 3,000 yards with his buddies mini 14 (223) I really didn't know what to do at that point. It was beyond my comprehension, lol. I just smiled and said yep I bet, have a nice day!

 

[JD338]

I color code my primer pockets with magic markers to indicate bullet weight, blue = light, green = mid weight, red = heavy weight bullets.

I was shooting my 35 Whelen when this fella came over and asked me what I was shooting. I told him a 35 Whelen and was confirming a zero with a pet load. He took a shell out of the box (without asking) and then told me these were factory loads, not hand loads!

Well, I took the shell from him, lock and loaded, and told him "Fire in the Hole".

I am fortunate that there is rarely anyone on the range when I go. The few times I have had company, I just keep to myself.

JD338

 

[Charlie-NY]

Not a range-rat, but a gunstore-rat.

A customer was bragging so much about how may groundhogs he had killed with his 25-06 at 1,000+ yards that he got my undivided attention. It only took a few seconds before I realized that he was just one of those guys that lives in his own fantasy.

Rather than call him out I politely asked him what type of rangefinder he was using at that distance. He looked flustered and apparently couldn't even think of one so he admitted that he never used one. That was about all I had to hear and just congratulated him on making such longrange kills without knowing the distance to the target. :roll: :roll:

Yup - those 25-06's sure do shoot flat!!

 

[jmad_81]

Was at Cabelas in Boise looking at a 7-08 for my wife. The guy behind the counter told me that a 7-08 was to small for elk and that I should get a 25-06 instead. I tried hard to be nice and told him that a 7-08 would work just fine. He went off on how he hates it when people don't know what they are doing and wound animals with guns that are to small. I was starting to lose it, I told him that I'm more than capable of loading high quality ammo for a 7-08 that will cleanly kill an elk if the shot is put in the right spot. "Well you better be loading the heaviest bullet you can find then" he told me. My wife gently gave me an elbow to the ribs before I could respond, and told me that she was sure it would work fine.

Why can't people just mind their own busines :roll:

 

[chet]

last I checked, 7 millimeters was bigger than 1/4 inch......

shoulda asked him for his full name and employee number
wrote it down with the date and time, and walked off.
make him sweat for a few days wondering what the manager is going to do to him :twisted:

He's supposed to sell guns, not preach about his own opinions.

 

[FOTIS]

last I checked, 7 millimeters was bigger than 1/4 inch......

Not in Cabelas in Boise! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[roysclockgun]

When I reread my own post that began this thread, I did see where a younger firearms fancier could have misunderstood. I quote myself : " I said that the last batch that I bought may be my last military ball ammo, as it has all but dried up! " Pulling out the part that reads; "all but dried up", I view that part in relative terms. From my viewpoint regarding buying US Military surplus 30-06 and the latter day imported military 30-06 ammo from various countries to include what CMP sells at inflated prices, the supplies have been greatly diminished AND importers, distributors and retailers who used to offer US M2 Ball ammo for under ten cents a round are now NOT offering any surplus 30-06 at any price. Certainly I did not mean to indicate that 30-06 ammo will disappear and be unavailable. That will only happen because of US Gov'mt. intrusive tactics! What I was saying is that inexpensive Lake City '72 ammo, which I bought for ten cents a round to sixty cents a round, is for the most part, gone! The know-it-all at the range admitted that he had not bought 30-06 milsurp ammo for some time, so of course, he is unaware that US stockpiles have been greatly diminished and foreign milsurp is going fast at any price. I still have 5000 rounds of Lake City '72, so I am not at all worried about having inexpensive 30-06 range ammo for my own use. I wager that in a very short time, once fired 30-06 cases will rise in value, as those who do not hand load now, will begin doing so, out of neccessity!
Only 8 years ago, my then home range in New Freedom, Pa., was giving out Lake City ammo for those taking part in military shoots. They can no longer do that, as US surplus supplies are not available to them.
Steven A.

 

[nodak7mm]

I always get a charge outta the guys who have a 30yr old beat-up Rem 740 or 742 with a 20$ bushnell or tasco mounted on tip-off rings at the range telling me how they drilled a 10pt buck running at 500yds with one shot.

Or the guys I work with who give me a pile of doo doo for spending more than 100$ on a scope or shoot anything less than a 200gr brush buster bullet. Only the lord knows how these guys get their deer every yr..

Learned long ago not to open my mouth or join in the discussions... I have very little paitence, if any for stupidity...

Rod

 

[buckfever]

Some times its really hard to keep your mouth shut when some one is full of s__t.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

A while back I was at one of the local gunstores, and a young off duty cop was telling everyone how great Glocks were, how to performs quick magazine changes, and the advantages of shooting the gun sideways. :roll:
Well, I mentioned that I liked my Sig 228, but had to clean the barrel after about every 50 rounds or my groups would open up. Well this know it all proceeded to tell me "there is no way a dirty barrel could affect accuracy, you groups open up because you are tired". I looked at him and stated,
"You don't do any long range rifle shooting, you you?"
He replied, "well no."
I just said, "that's what I thought, and turned away"
The startled look on his face was priceless, and he started to sputter and stammer, wondering how I could know that from his earler statements.

 

[roysclockgun]

Antelope_Sniper wrote : "and a young off duty cop was telling everyone how great Glocks were,"

Yeah, I have heard a fair number of BS statements from LEOs. I respect all LEOs, as they perform work for which they can never be paid enough. That said, there are some to them who believe that wisdom is issued to them, along with the badge.
I was in a pack n'ship store and young COP was promoting the younger girl, clerking the place, and trying like heck to impress her. He was holding forth on how too many tax dollars are spent on keeping perps in jail and that they should all be forced to join the US military. I did horn in when I asked him if he'd been in the military. He said; "No! But that has nothing to do with it!" I only responded by saying; "If you'd served, you'd know why we do not want to empty the prisons and put the undesireables in our military!"
Steven A.

 

[Polaris]

Try shooting a Mosin Nagant or a PSL at a busy range. You'll get some curious people, and I'm happy to explain to them some of the history of these rifles and let them try them out if they want. Then you get the other guy....

You can usually spot him at the range as he has a machine rest, a spotting scope, sometimes a chronograph and invariably a 1000 dollar or more rifle with a 1000 dollar scope on it. He'll walk over and sneer at the mosin or comment on my "AK" and it's inherent inaccuracy.. "only good at spraying bullets for close range". At that point I have him spot my target as I shoot a 10 shot ragged cluster with the PSL in about 15 seconds that chews up the area between the 4 squares on a scope target with Czech military ammo that was made 15 years before I was born and smells like burning cats when fired. Even better yet if his fancy rig was set up 1 or 2 benches to my right so he can watch the cases bounce off his stuff.

I hope that's true about more '06 ammo coming in. Even the price of 762X54R has shot up. I just sold my CETME 762NATO as I couldn't afford to shoot it anymore. Running low on greek '06.

 

[roysclockgun]

Polaris, were I you, I would begin collecting once fired 30-06 at the range. The value of the 30-06 cases has not yet been fully realized. You could amass 1000 pieces and likely be set for a long time, by using very simple, low cost hand loading tools. Pulled FMJ 30cal. bullets are also, inexpensive and if you Google "military gun powder", you can likely pick up an 8lb. bottle that will work well in 30-06.
For awhile, hand loading was not saving me much money, but now, since the person who now occupies the house in Washington, has put the pressure on firearms owners, ammo prices have shot up, as frightened buyers hoard. These prices will not come back down. Begin hand loading now and beat the crowd, in terms of amassing components.
I do not have a huge amount, but going to the range 25 times a year, I have enough to carry me ten years or more. That way, I am not a slave to the cost of ammo.
Steven A.

 

[Polaris]

Polaris, were I you, I would begin collecting once fired 30-06 at the range. The value of the 30-06 cases has not yet been fully realized. You could amass 1000 pieces and likely be set for a long time, by using very simple, low cost hand loading tools. Pulled FMJ 30cal. bullets are also, inexpensive and if you Google "military gun powder", you can likely pick up an 8lb. bottle that will work well in 30-06.
For awhile, hand loading was not saving me much money, but now, since the person who now occupies the house in Washington, has put the pressure on firearms owners, ammo prices have shot up, as frightened buyers hoard. These prices will not come back down. Begin hand loading now and beat the crowd, in terms of amassing components.
I do not have a huge amount, but going to the range 25 times a year, I have enough to carry me ten years or more. That way, I am not a slave to the cost of ammo.
Steven A.

I have been handloading for many years, but the nicest thing about many of these military rifles was that one could obtain high quality ammo for less than or equal to the cost of handloading. It's nice to sit down and fire away in the gravel pit without worrying about how long it will take you to replace that ammo if you can find primers. fortunately, all of the 30-06 ammo I've been firing is good, reloadable brass and I have quite a pile of it put away. Would just be nice to have more . Feels like a waste letting my wife shoot 168 grain Nos BTHPs at milk jugs (she loves the M1). Likewise feels like a waste to spend all that time reloading the rounds with inferior pulldown bullets. I don't care what anybody says, they are not nearly as accurate as virgin bullets.. I've tried them in 762 NATO and could not replicate the accuracy of military ball ammo from South Africa. Cheap military ammo was a happy marriage of inexpensive shooting and quality ammo for informal target practice. At least I've still got lots of 762X54R squirreled away.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Well!...........I`m convinced that some shooters at the range aren`t content with their own business, and wish sometimes to perk up some casual conversation, which is OK with me if they wish to do that. I don`t mind the conversation.

One day recently on the range, I was firing some near max reloads out of my 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact carbine, which is not a common rifle seen on the range. These loadings had already been worked up to near max and were previously chronographed, so there was no need for the chrony for this range session.

Before the range break, and obviously before I even fired a shot, a shooter who was about 4 or 5 bench settings down from me, made his way over to me, who was intrigued with the Frontier`s abbreviated barrel length.

Without even asking what cartridge I was shooting or any other details, the very first thing said out of his mouth was,,,,"whadaya use that little thing for,,deer hunting at 100 yards?" As I smirked along with having a big smile on my face, my response to him was,,,,"gonna be here for awhile?? He said, "yep!"...........The sting or set up was on!!!

After his question and my answer to him, he retreated to his bench. Before the range break, I placed a small towel over the action and barrel, deliberately hiding the engraving that says,,,,300 WSM!!!

At this particular range, I always fire a a couple of fouling shots into a huge boulder higher up on a ridge, which my Leupold rangefinder says is 487 yards out!!! Just below that boulder is softer dirt where a bullet impact can be easily seen.

So I get all set up and before my 1st shot, I walked over to the gentlemen who approached me who`s name turned out to be "Mac"...

I asked; "How far away do you think that boulder is Mac? He said,,,"about 350 yards",,,as he smirked at me! I pulled out my rangefinder, gave it to him and asked him to range the same position on the boulder and dirt below the boulder sitting at my bench. He came up with the same 487 yards.

I gave him my binos and said,,,,"keep your eyes on the dirt just below the boulder." As I was positioning myself at the bench I said "let me know when yer ready Mac." As I chambered a round, he said "fire when ready."..............Then,,,,,BOOOM!

I turned around to Mac and said,,,,,,,"100 yard deer rifle you say?"

He then says,,,,,"Damn! What in the hell are you shootin there out of that little thing?" With his mouth still hung open, he walked over and looked down where it says,,,300 WSM!

I then said,,,"At 1st impression, never judge a rifle`s capability by the barrel length alone!",,,which he obviously did!

My load that day and velocity, which I soon disclosed to him, was 66.8 gr RL 17; 175 gr Berger VLD, which I chrony`d on average at 2989 fps a couple of weeks earlier.

What a perfect sting and set up!!!! I had fun!!!

Later, we exchanged phone #s.

 

[Divernhunter]

I sometimes have people tell me how fast their load or file with fac loads are. I ask if they have run them over a chrono? Usually they have not. I often will have used that load or near it in my testingwhich I compare barrel lenghts to mine and have the test notes with me if I do not remember. I ask if they want to see and I would shoot their rifle over my chrono if I have it with me. They are usually surprised how their their 3200FPS load is doing 2800FPS. It sure was an eye opener when I tested some of my loads. But heck if they work that is what matters.

Or when they brag about their big gun(338mag,which I have or 375+) etc and after they shoot I will get out my 50bmg rifles. Not many bigger than that. They usually want to shoot them and I enjoy letting them.

 

[SJB358]

I have heard all kinds of shooting advice at the range. The most impressive is the guys who have told me there is no need for anything more than a 243 for anything, as bigger rifles just ruin the meat. The second most common phrase I hear after telling them what kind of bullet I am shooting (usually some kind of Nosler), they tell me deer run too far with Noslers and I should shoot something like a Sierra Matchking or Hornady AMAX as they usually just explode and kill deer instantly. I usually just smile and let it go. Now I shoot at my buddies house, so I don't have to mess with extra folks at the range. Alot more peaceful and productive for me. Scotty