ballistic tips again...

[bteate]

As usual, I'm in 100% agreement with DrMike. I'll almost never go for a neck shot anymore due to many photos I've seen regarding esophagus damage. The pic from a trail camera of a live deer with a hole in its throat made the decision for me.

 

[DaveA37]

For what it's worth, I just returned from a Wyoming mule deer and elk hunt (no elk for me this year). The deer hunting went VERY WELL with 7 of us all filling our tags. I canvased all 7 hunters and found that 6 of the 7 were using ballistic tip bullets in calibers from 30-06, 308 to 300 Win Mag. Each man had a buck and two extra doe tags (yep, we are meat hunters). No deer were lost and few took more than one shot to bring down. Mine, a nice 4x5, took one in the "boiler room" and dropped within 10 yards.

A few years back I took a very repecible caribou up in Alaska with a 308 loaded with 165 gr. BT's and that critter roller right over when hit. I can recall seeing all four legs horizontal in the air at the shot. I can say with some experience, the BT's do what they are supposed to do. As I said, unfortunately, I did NOT get a chance to use them on an elk but believe with a well placed shot, I could have dropped one.

That's my $0.02 worth

 

[JD338]

The perfect shot doesn't have to be in order to make that shot. There are other alternatives, such as neck, throat shots.

The perfect shot may not present itself, but the shot should be ethical and have the probability of success. Each hunter is responsible to treat the game with respect. While a spine shot will indeed kill game, anchoring it immediately, the spine is a small area to hit. There is significant risk that a bullet will pass under or over the spine, damaging the trachea or esophagus. Damage to the trachea will eventually kill an animal, and damage to the esophagus, while lethal, can require a long time before the animal succumbs. Throat and neck shots are among the poorest choices for shooting an animal. It can mean a long tracking job.

Spot on Mike! +1

JD338

 

[boolit]

The perfect shot doesn't have to be in order to make that shot. There are other alternatives, such as neck, throat shots.

The perfect shot may not present itself, but the shot should be ethical and have the probability of success. Each hunter is responsible to treat the game with respect. While a spine shot will indeed kill game, anchoring it immediately, the spine is a small area to hit. There is significant risk that a bullet will pass under or over the spine, damaging the trachea or esophagus. Damage to the trachea will eventually kill an animal, and damage to the esophagus, while lethal, can require a long time before the animal succumbs. Throat and neck shots are among the poorest choices for shooting an animal. It can mean a long tracking job.

Spot on Mike! +1

JD338

I shot deer in the spine or neck and downed the animal... And I don't think there's disrepect, considering most shots any hunter makes DOESN'T kill them immediantly. A boiler room shot is not an immidate kill. I've seen broad side shots, ethical shot's at critters and they were in convulsions.

 

[FOTIS]

For what it's worth, I just returned from a Wyoming mule deer and elk hunt (no elk for me this year). The deer hunting went VERY WELL with 7 of us all filling our tags. I canvased all 7 hunters and found that 6 of the 7 were using ballistic tip bullets in calibers from 30-06, 308 to 300 Win Mag. Each man had a buck and two extra doe tags (yep, we are meat hunters). No deer were lost and few took more than one shot to bring down. Mine, a nice 4x5, took one in the "boiler room" and dropped within 10 yards.

A few years back I took a very repecible caribou up in Alaska with a 308 loaded with 165 gr. BT's and that critter roller right over when hit. I can recall seeing all four legs horizontal in the air at the shot. I can say with some experience, the BT's do what they are supposed to do. As I said, unfortunately, I did NOT get a chance to use them on an elk but believe with a well placed shot, I could have dropped one.

That's my $0.02 worth

Not a shabby record huh? :wink:

 

[cloverleaf]

Guess I will restae my small and limited experience. I shoot the mighty 250-3000 Savage. On a good day with a tail wind and more 4064 than probably should be used I can move a 100 gr BT over 2900 fps at the muzzle. My usual load is just under that and capable of 1/2 in. groups. The ONLY animal I have taken was the antelope below (I said I had limited experience) at 264 yards. The bullet hit the near side shoulder, at the leg, broke that and then continued on therough both lungs, exiting mid ribs on the far side. He walked in a circle and pitched over backwards, DRT. Now I have seen a deer hit with the same bullet, at half that yardage from a fully stoked 257 Weatherby. Meat damage was obvious to the near shoulder, but tat deer was dead. I chided the shooter for his 3500 fps+ velocity on a deer and his shoulder. A Partition perhaps would have been neater, but not necessarily dead faster. In my again, very limited opinion, the BT does what it does extremely well. If there is a "blow-up" there are lots of other factors not controlled by the bullet. CL

PS I post the Pick just cause I like any excuse to do so..... :grin:

 

[DrMike]

I post the Pick just cause I like any excuse to do so.....

That's a good enough reason to post a picture. It is a good one, too. That target is worthy of bragging about, as well.

 

[boolit]

Guess I will restae my small and limited experience. I shoot the mighty 250-3000 Savage. On a good day with a tail wind and more 4064 than probably should be used I can move a 100 gr BT over 2900 fps at the muzzle. My usual load is just under that and capable of 1/2 in. groups. The ONLY animal I have taken was the antelope below (I said I had limited experience) at 264 yards. The bullet hit the near side shoulder, at the leg, broke that and then continued on therough both lungs, exiting mid ribs on the far side. He walked in a circle and pitched over backwards, DRT. Now I have seen a deer hit with the same bullet, at half that yardage from a fully stoked 257 Weatherby. Meat damage was obvious to the near shoulder, but tat deer was dead. I chided the shooter for his 3500 fps+ velocity on a deer and his shoulder. A Partition perhaps would have been neater, but not necessarily dead faster. In my again, very limited opinion, the BT does what it does extremely well. If there is a "blow-up" there are lots of other factors not controlled by the bullet. CL

PS I post the Pick just cause I like any excuse to do so..... :grin:

Great story... I'm convinced :wink:

 

[Murphdog]

I use 165 grain BT's in my 30-06 for long range applications and have done so for years. My only complaint about BT's is that it you ht the shoulder you are going to loose a lot more meat then you are with a Partition and when it comes to elk the penetration is going to be lacking especially at close range.

My buddy uses the 180 BT in his 300 win and has killed a whole bunch of elk with said load. He is an excellent shot and a very disciplined hunter, with little tolerance for meat loss, his target of choice is the neck. Very impressive results!!!

 

[FOTIS]

Terry:

Ever hit an elk with the 165 BT's? I have an acquaintance that swears by them.

 

[rick smith]

There is not a bullet to make up for an improperly placed shot. If you can't get the correct shot, pass it up. Too many hunters think their neighbors will get the deer if they don't shoot. A wounded animal that you can't recover is still a lost animal.Rick.

 

[Guest]

I can testify to the results of using the Balistic Tip Bullet,
I shoot a 30-06 for whitetail, load is 150 Ballistic Tip or 150 Accubonds. Both shoot POI same. I really like them both. Having killed 3 Buck 3-years in a row, one with the AccuBond and 2 with the BT. JD338 is correct, stay away from the shoulders with the BT. This load is clocked at 3,000 FPS with the 150. First buck with the BT was rib cage shot. Tore the lungs to pieces exited with a silver dollar sized hole at 75 yds. Second Buck was shot at 35yds. thru the near shoulder with extensive damage, although the bullet exited the ribs the hole was pencil sized due to fragmentation on the bone structure at close range. This buck was crippled by someone else, I only had a snap shot, just happened to be where my cross hairs were when I touched it off. The AccuBond Buck was shot at 55yds thru the shoulder Blade area from a Tree stand. I caught all that Muscle area with the shot as well due to angle of the shot. It exited about the size of a dime. The holes inside the rib cage were impressive. Going thru the shoulder area into the rib cage the hole was Lemon sized, exiting the ribs was silver dollar sized, exiting the hide dime sized. This buck went 70-yards before hitting the deck. To sum it up the AccuBond will stay together and not fragment. The BT is an awesome bullet and will put the hammer down on whitetails, just beware of shot placement.

DON

 

[JD338]

CL

I ALWAYS enjoy looking at that photo of you and your speed goat. I also like the one of you and the speed goat mount too. :wink:
The tatget doed indeed give you bragging reightd. Proof that the BT is deadly on game and a very accurate bullet.

JD338

 

[boolit]

Some say bone isn't a problem some say it is.... sounds like these bullets aren't reliable all the time. Sounds like the answer to the problem is a tougher bullet, (like a Partition, but this bullet is not very accurate in my rifle...) unless I stay off the shoulder like JD338 says... But I don't want to have a bullet with me that I won't be able to use in any situation.

I don't want to have to be concerned about bullet integrity in the feild, because I know that perfect shots aren't always availible. Full confidance is what I'm after. And I see from the feed back from you all, the BT isn't it, no matter if some say no problems or not. Doesn't sound like quality control is alway there at Nosler. Sounds like a hot core or a interlock would foot the bill.

 

[SJB358]

Boolit, if you are using the BT within its specs and an appropriate weight bullet, I can't see you having any issues with deer. If you try to drive them too fast, they "might" give you an issue, but if you stick with the heavier end of the bullet weight and put your shots where it counts, you won't have issues. The little 95gr BT's have worked well on Northern NY deer for me and others, and we have put them through shoulders, at close wood ranges without issues. Every single hunter has a level of performance none of us can gauge for you. I like the PT's, but for deer, the BT's put serious pain into any deer, when used with the appropriate bullet/speed/caliber. Scotty

 

[JD338]

Boolit,

I think you missed the point. The .277 130 gr BT will kill deer fast. It will take out the shoulder on a deer as well. If you shoot a shoulder with a 130 gr BT, or any cup and core buller for that matter, you are going to destroy that quarter. This has nothing to do with quality control but it does have everything to do with using the right bullet for the job. If you want to shoot shoulders, either the AccuBond or Partition are better suited for that task.
If the 130 gr BT shoots well in your rifle, go hunt with confidence.

FWIW, Pop's son shot a deer through the lungs with the 130 gr BT from a 270 Win and it was DRT.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13683

JD338

 

[cloverleaf]

JD thanks for the compliments. I dont post the pictures of the 3 inch group I shot last weekend.....same rifle, same load :roll: :roll: Operator error....?I hadnt picked it up since before the fire back in May. Should have started with the 22. I think. CL

 

[JD338]

CL,

We all have good shooting days and then there are those days that we should have stayed home.
Keep at it buddy, you will di just fine!

JD338

 

[boolit]

Boolit,

I think you missed the point. The .277 130 gr BT will kill deer fast. It will take out the shoulder on a deer as well. If you shoot a shoulder with a 130 gr BT, or any cup and core buller for that matter, you are going to destroy that quarter. This has nothing to do with quality control but it does have everything to do with using the right bullet for the job. If you want to shoot shoulders, either the AccuBond or Partition are better suited for that task.
If the 130 gr BT shoots well in your rifle, go hunt with confidence.

FWIW, Pop's son shot a deer through the lungs with the 130 gr BT from a 270 Win and it was DRT.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13683

JD338

It's more practical to use a more versatile bullet for uncertain shooting situations.
The BT seems a more long range bullet where you can wait for a proper shot.
You can't compare a hotcore or interlock cup and core with a BT cup and core, BIG difference. They don't rapidly expand like a BT Nosler.

I tested Sierra Hornady Speer and Nosler Partition.... Sierra outperformed all, as far as Controlled expansion, but petered out quick. Speer had the best mushroom with deeper penetration. Hornady, Nosler were 2nd.

Winchester PP were 2nd from Speer.

 

[Guest]

Boolit,
Have you considered trying the E-Tip Bullet. You mentioned an all purpose bullet, could be worth a try!