Thinking about loading some 165 gr BT's in my 300 Weatherby Mag. This would be used primarily as a deer hunting load. Out of the muzzle velocity is going to be around 3200-3300 fps. Has anyone had any experience using BT's in a mag rifle? I'm wondering if the BT's would work better in a lower velocity cartridge.
Ballistic tips
- Thread starter djknkk
- Start date
- Nov 4, 2004
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I would recomend you go with the 180 gr AB, second choice would be the 180 gr BT for your 300 Wby Mag.
JD338
JD338
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
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Im a firm believer in non bonded bullets for deer. Deer aren't made of kevlar. But you also need to match the bullet to the cartridge. Your 300 weatherby is a potent round, if it was me, I would do 180g btips. They will hit harder, retain more velocity and energy down range, and have less wind drift. They are both going to do some damage though, but you wont be dissappointed with them either way. Btips work great in magnum cartridges if you use the heavier btip in that given caliber. I have used the 180g btip out of my 300 RUM at 3400fps and would not hesitate to wack a deer with it. It would really mess that deers world up. Just keep in mind, any bullet you use out of your 300 weatherby, pretty much any deer inside 200 yards and you will see massive destruction, dont matter what bullet your using. IMpact velocity has far more to do with meat damage then the type of bullet your using. The 180g btip at closer range with its slightly less impact velocity will help ensure penetration, and at longer ranges, you will see nice size exit holes.
My comments are not intended to refute anyones input here. I will speak from personal experience.
I loaded 180 gr BT's for my 300 Wby to 3250 fps. I encountered an Axis Buck and engaged him at roughly 200 yds. I picked a dot on his hide and stuck him right in the ribs. He went down. As I reloaded, he was wagging his head trying to use the momentum to get to his feet. My Trophy hunting buddy's words kept replaying in my mind, "If he's trying to get up, put another round in him!" I settled the crosshairs on his spine and triggered him. It was lights out. That Wby shoots like a Laser beam !!! Anyway, as I skinned him out I felt inside for an exit wound and the only penetration I found was the green polymer tip embedded in the offside rib. Excited, I thought no more of it.
Days later after admiring my Axis picture loaded on my desktop screen something about it did not look quite right. It suddenly dawned on me that the hole in him, big enough to stick my arm through, was the onside impact wound. I was shocked. I stared at that picture for an hour to make sure I was seeing correctly. I signed on to the Nosler website and called them. It was explained to me that the BT's are not meant, nor were they ever meant to be driven beyond 3100 fps. I was told, " yes they are destructive but above 3100 they are unpredictable and are known to explode on impact causing superficial wounds." I said thank you, hung up and thought (no pun intended), I dodged a bullet. That 280 lb Axis Buck with 38" inch main beams could have escaped. I can tell you that when they are wounded but on the hoof, they can put a mile between you and them in a very short period of time.
I suggest you go with the 180 AB's and you'll never have to even think about it. Admittedly, Whitetails are easier prey for a 300 Wby. I would leave the BT's for the 270/280/30-06 class if you are determined to use them. Actually, I don't want to discourage you from the BT's if that is what you want but you do need to slow them down to around 3050 and you will love 'em in the Wby. They will separate but they will also kill humanely. The killing factor is to cause an almost instantaneous blood pressure drop in the animal which disorients them as they bleed out.
I now shoot Accubonds exclusively. My 300 Wby shoots .5 groups with 84.5gr IMR 7828, CCI 250, 180 gr AB's or 180 gr Grand Slams. I have two Wby's and I will die b4 someone else owns those two barrels. I am a single shot hunter.
I loaded 180 gr BT's for my 300 Wby to 3250 fps. I encountered an Axis Buck and engaged him at roughly 200 yds. I picked a dot on his hide and stuck him right in the ribs. He went down. As I reloaded, he was wagging his head trying to use the momentum to get to his feet. My Trophy hunting buddy's words kept replaying in my mind, "If he's trying to get up, put another round in him!" I settled the crosshairs on his spine and triggered him. It was lights out. That Wby shoots like a Laser beam !!! Anyway, as I skinned him out I felt inside for an exit wound and the only penetration I found was the green polymer tip embedded in the offside rib. Excited, I thought no more of it.
Days later after admiring my Axis picture loaded on my desktop screen something about it did not look quite right. It suddenly dawned on me that the hole in him, big enough to stick my arm through, was the onside impact wound. I was shocked. I stared at that picture for an hour to make sure I was seeing correctly. I signed on to the Nosler website and called them. It was explained to me that the BT's are not meant, nor were they ever meant to be driven beyond 3100 fps. I was told, " yes they are destructive but above 3100 they are unpredictable and are known to explode on impact causing superficial wounds." I said thank you, hung up and thought (no pun intended), I dodged a bullet. That 280 lb Axis Buck with 38" inch main beams could have escaped. I can tell you that when they are wounded but on the hoof, they can put a mile between you and them in a very short period of time.
I suggest you go with the 180 AB's and you'll never have to even think about it. Admittedly, Whitetails are easier prey for a 300 Wby. I would leave the BT's for the 270/280/30-06 class if you are determined to use them. Actually, I don't want to discourage you from the BT's if that is what you want but you do need to slow them down to around 3050 and you will love 'em in the Wby. They will separate but they will also kill humanely. The killing factor is to cause an almost instantaneous blood pressure drop in the animal which disorients them as they bleed out.
I now shoot Accubonds exclusively. My 300 Wby shoots .5 groups with 84.5gr IMR 7828, CCI 250, 180 gr AB's or 180 gr Grand Slams. I have two Wby's and I will die b4 someone else owns those two barrels. I am a single shot hunter.
- Thread starter
- #5
- Nov 4, 2004
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Reloader28,
Yep. :wink:
JD338
Yep. :wink:
JD338
I certainly do not want to flog a dead horse, but my experience with Ballistic tips in my 7mm STW and my 30-338 exactly mirrors those of Reloader28. I have ceased using them in any hi velocity rifle including the 270/130 grain BT. I have had good success with the larger heavier Ballistic tips at moderate velocities. [180 8mm, 225 35 cal], but these also have a considerably heavier jacket than the lighter, smaller diameter BT's I have been using the Accubonds for a couple of years now, and they are the real thing in the hi-performance chamberings. Regards, Eagleye.
MarlinMark
Beginner
- Mar 27, 2006
- 9
- 0
I'm with the AccuBond crowd. Why risk the exploxion/penetration scenario? Accubonds shoot as well if not better than the BT's. If I'm shooting at anything bigger than a rock chuck it's Accubonds all the way.
Mark
Mark
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
- 850
- 0
Unfortunately I've run into the same problem with BT'S. I loaded some 165's in a 30.06 for a friend in maine and watched him shoot a beautiful 10 point 3 times in the shoulder only to have the bullets blow up. If the rounds had struck behind the shoulder the results probably would have been different, but slower velocity for the BT is a good idea.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,276
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POP":3htfgzjh said:
300 yard group .675" Hell, you can even prairie dog with this load! and AB's are relatively cheap.
As long as you use Nosler guide found under the FAQ. You can not go wrong.
Ballistic Tip:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1600 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 3000 fps
Ive shot clear through both sholders of wild hogs (not huge monster ones) using BT's in my 270. With impact velocities under 3k. Anything over, I'd look at another bullet.
Ballistic Tip:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1600 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 3000 fps
Ive shot clear through both sholders of wild hogs (not huge monster ones) using BT's in my 270. With impact velocities under 3k. Anything over, I'd look at another bullet.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
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exactly what 270 win said. As long as you use there guidelines, i dont see how one can go wrong with btips. I purposely shoulder shoot my deer to anchor them on the spot. My bullet of choice was 115g btip out of my 25-06 at 3200fps. After 100 yards, its down to 3000fps impact velocity, so anything after 100 yards is ok. I shoulder shot all my deer, I got complete penetration with that 115g bullet and got baseball size exits. Now if someone complains of a blowup with anything heavier, one must ask what bullet weight they were using, out of what caliber, and how far the range was to see the impact velocity. impact velocity has far more to do with meat damage then bullet construction. btips are the best deer bullet in my opinion. They have worked for me countless times, and my family in various weights in calibers. I have never once experienced a blown up bullet that did not exit. Now if you want to see a crappy bullet, try shooting a remington core lokt into newspaper and see what it looks like compared to btips. everybody thinks core lokts are the greatest mushroom to come out of the woods. btips are like xbullets compared to those coreloks i shot. not even a comparison. i also very highly doubt that the 165g btip went 1.5" into newspaper and completely blew up. A 30-06 first off doesn't shoot a bullet that fast to make it lose so much weight so fast. If thats the case, my 115g btip should only penetrate 1" into the newspaper, but by my findings, it usually went 6-8" along with every other 130-140g .270, 150g 7 mag, 180g 300 mags. Give me a break.
Wow, now I'm a liar! I am a fan of BT's, so what reason would I have to lie trying to discredit it? I wouldn't use the 165's for deer size game though. That's my experience with them, like it or not. I was doing a side by side comparison with 168 gr Sierra Matchkings at the time. The Sierra's gave me perfect expansion and the BT's blew up. Which was the exact opposite of what I expected. Now some pieces did go farther than 1.5" but they weren't very big. I kept the pieces for years to show people but they must have gotten lost in a move or just thrown away because I didn't think I needed a body of evidence to relate my personal experiences. This was three shots each at 40 yards out of a Rem. 7400.
I loaded some BT's for a 25-06 I sold to a friend several years ago and let the ammo go with it. He shot a nice size buck with it and brought the carcus over to show me. It made a huge hole in the shoulder but didn't come anywhere near penetrating to the other side. There were pieces of jacket visible just under the hide. Fortunately the second shot was a neck shot and it didn't get away. So based on my experience, you must be on the Nosler board of directors and trying to sell more bullets. Based on what I've seen, there is no way you got pass through shots through both shoulders with a 25-06 (unless it was Bambi's little sister)! "Give me a break"! But I wasn't there, so I can't call you a liar, all I can do is offer my experience. Just like you!
Good luck to ya, though!
I loaded some BT's for a 25-06 I sold to a friend several years ago and let the ammo go with it. He shot a nice size buck with it and brought the carcus over to show me. It made a huge hole in the shoulder but didn't come anywhere near penetrating to the other side. There were pieces of jacket visible just under the hide. Fortunately the second shot was a neck shot and it didn't get away. So based on my experience, you must be on the Nosler board of directors and trying to sell more bullets. Based on what I've seen, there is no way you got pass through shots through both shoulders with a 25-06 (unless it was Bambi's little sister)! "Give me a break"! But I wasn't there, so I can't call you a liar, all I can do is offer my experience. Just like you!
Good luck to ya, though!
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
- 850
- 0
richcale, I would just let RemMans remarks go. He has the ability to do things that none of the rest of us have ever dreamed of doing. I've experienced the same problem with BT's that you have. I know other people have also. Some people just like to hear themselves talk and he fits the mold perfectly. That's why I always wear at least Knee boots when I read anything that RemMan writes. Your remarks are accurate.
CamoWildcat
Beginner
- Mar 20, 2006
- 118
- 0
Richcale and Big Rifle Man,
I totally agree with averything you both said. I've hunted and shot guns for twice as many years as he has been alive, yet he has twice the experience and knowledge that I have. :wink:
I totally agree with averything you both said. I've hunted and shot guns for twice as many years as he has been alive, yet he has twice the experience and knowledge that I have. :wink:
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
Well deer are different then newspaper I guess. Unless you shot the newspaper at about 25 yards, I still dont see how it would only go 1.5". Doesn't make any sense to me. Thats right, just sharing my experiences as well and have NOTHING bad to say about btips. There are better and worse bullets out there for deer, but for us they have worked beautiflly every time, no questions asked. I dont care how long you guys have been hunting or shooting, that dosn't mean crap. You guys seem to think that just bcause your older then me, you know more then me? Just because I tend to shoot longer ranges and actually go the limits of my ability and cartridges ability, probly something you old guys dont know, cuz your still stuck back in the 50's or whatever. I dont care how much older or longer you've been shooting or hunting then me, it doesn't mean squat. I use my own experiences and talk to some of the best shooters out there, thats where I get my other info. I dont sit around on the couch or computer all day. I actually get out and shoot all my rifles out at my long ranges and practice and get used to them. Just because you guys cant shoot far, doesn't mean I cant. Targets or animals.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
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I take everythign you old guys say with a grain of salt. The last old guy I talked to said "see that tree way over there, must be 800 yards, i've shot many deer and elk by it". Knowing the guy was totally full of crap about the yardage, I got my rangefinder out and said its no more then 500 at most. Rangefinders dont lie, it was only 400 yards. So all those 800 yard shots that old guy said he seemed to make with a 300 win mag and a 3-9 duplex scope, they were actually only 400. There was nothing I could do but laugh inside. Some people just have no idea what it takes to shoot long range, and old people are the worst. Now the 500-600 yard shots I take really are that long, because for one I have a rangefinder which is a necessity for long range shooting. Next I have a high power scopes for precise shot placement. 6-18 leupolds. Next, theres a thing called "target knobs" with a drop chart, convert that into clicks and you range the target and click "up" to hold dead on. Shooting out to your intended range confirms your drop chart, which is exactly what I do. You also need a cronograph to get your exact velocity for the load you plaon on shooting long range. Now you old guys probly still dont know how or what it takes, no matter how much explaining or wasteing my time trying to explain it to you. Its not rocket science. IF a 20 year old kid can do it, surely a 60 year old know it all can. Get real you old guys. Maybe if you ever make it out to Oregon, I'll give you all long range shooting lessons.
